Tory Rule

[Deleted]

It was only a matter of time till they showed their true colours....

George Osborne (multimillionaire and heir to the Osborne and Little dynasty) said today he will not introduce a mansion tax on his fellow squillionaires, despite council tax bands favouring the super-rich,

and

Jeremy *unt has the sheet gall to believe he can now lay down a diktat that the abortion limit should be 12 weeks. As Health Secretary of two weeks, and with precisely NO qualifications for being so, he should shirley be keeping his misguided personal views out of it.

Who the flying feck ARE these people? I'll tell you; they're spoiled, privileged, ignorant and nasty excuses for human beings.

They have no mandate to lay down the law in Scotland. We've all seen their ilk before, to Scotland's detriment.

In the name of holy FECK let's get ourselves away from them. They are irrelevant to us, our principles and our way of life here.

Too many a***holes, too few bullets.

[bormes]

As you know rolo I am not a tory however I listened to some of Ball's argument last week and some of some tory on the TV this week (Cameron) I have to say regards the tax laws that labour are shouting about, IF as we are told by lowering the tax limit to wealthy people we actually get in MORE tax from them, then instead of going for loud large headlines Balls should be supporting this idea.
The mansion tax so called wanted by the "liberals" and labour is a wolf in sheep's clothing, it will NOT stop at the millionaire's the jealousy (seen constantly at Glasgow ) will ensure ordinary people like you and me who have worked hard to get a wee bit of a nice house etc., and paid our taxes WILL be the ones who pay when others with 3 and 4 generations of slackers who have never worked and never wanted to will NOT pay a penny again. Then when we are old and infirm despite contributing all our lives the state will want to take our houses and sell them to keep more votes from the non workers and immigrant non workers. (not all immigrants are non workers, many are hard working folk, just be better if they were hard working in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia etc., rather than here.)
It would be much better if there was a fairer system for our local council tax for example but it is very unlikely local councils like Glasgow would try to make it work unless it was a labour idea.

[Deleted]

But we WON'T get more tax in from the very wealthy Bormes, because they can afford to pay accountants and lawyers who advise them on tax evasion!

Re 'mansion' tax, if you can afford a house that costs millions then you can afford to pay more than someone on the same council tax band owning a £300,000 home. Currently they're all on the same CT band, in Glasgow anyway... that does seem unfair to me.

I do believe we need an element of benefit reform but much much more than that I think we need curbs on tax evasion. If people get rich in the UKE paying minimum wage to those that make them rich then let them pay a little more of their huge profits towards making society a little better for those who genuinely NEED help---through illness, redundancy or disability.

[bormes]

Well according to the figures we pare told dropping from the 50pc to 40 or 45 means we actually get more tax in whereas at the higher amount they sod off elsewhere and we get nothing even Balls had to admit this.
Regards the mansion tax, yes very wealthy should pay more but a proper system needs introducing as it is it is open to abuse just look at the West End and the abuse of it by the labour catholic mafia in George Sq., Have you ever seen more of the politics of ENVY anywhere? My fear is if it is introduced as they wish it just now it is an open invitation for the likes of GCC to rip the arse out of the situation as they have for years in as I said the West End. Their ENVY agenda could run riot and people like you and me end up paying even more and the real wealthy just move on and continue AVOIDING expencses when they become too high.
The whole tax system needs to be re evaluated as if you have a company you pay 19 PCM tax yet if you and your wife have a business grossing the same amount as another business which is a company you can end up paying 40 PC The whole system stinks
And needs sorted.

[Deleted]

You know what, Bormes? If the wealthiest of people seriously object to being taxed at 50% as opposed to 45% then LET THEM fuck off elsewhere.

They are not the kind of people we want here.

[ozneil]

Oct 9, 2012 17:36:21 GMT -1 @rolo said:

But we WON'T get more tax in from the very wealthy Bormes, because they can afford to pay accountants and lawyers who advise them on tax evasion!

.

Gee Im one of these people though definitely not wealthy. I employed Lawyers and Accountants to minimise my tax I use the term minimise not evade, that is illegal and I assume you mean minimise rather than evasion. I paid them for these services (an arm and a bloody leg) they paid their staff who paid tax and they paid tax on their profit so it wasnt unpaid

I found in the bad old days (pre Asian Melt down) that I had difficulty in getting senior staff to work over 20-30 hours overtime a month as they were paying 47% on hours over that and they said it just wasnt worth the effort.

Scotland has always managed to produce great people and then drive them out of the country, names that jump immediately to mind are Jame Watt and Andrew Carnegie. Even a friend of ours, a Gyno, left to practice in Memphis TN. He said he couldnt stand the restrictions placed on him and the $$$ he was offered together with the offered life style made his eyes pop out ------ it was an offer he couldnt resist.

Until Scotland realises it has to entice or keep Entrepeneurs and other top people it will continue to be generally a "Branch Office" country. Pushing up tax another 5% will hardly help provide that incentive. In spite of the laudable sentiment " they can Feck Off" if they object to paying it you do need them desperately and with incentives to keep them and their $$$ there not just penalise them.

People have gone on at great lengths how much the CEOs of your banks get paid. Banks are like any other business they dont pay staff including CEOs a cent more than they have too. Pay them less and they are offski. The CEOs of 2 of our major banks are Scots, they were head hunted. Also of the huge profits they make what dividends do the pay? Bear in mind the Top brasses' monies are a drop in the bucket of the total turn over.

The above paragraph is from my personal experience and may not be applicable to Scotland but I'll bet Im not far off

[notanimby]

Oct 10, 2012 5:44:16 GMT -1 ozneil said:

Oct 9, 2012 17:36:21 GMT -1 @rolo said:

But we WON'T get more tax in from the very wealthy Bormes, because they can afford to pay accountants and lawyers who advise them on tax evasion!

.

Gee Im one of these people though definitely not wealthy. I employed Lawyers and Accountants to minimise my tax I use the term minimise not evade, that is illegal and I assume you mean minimise rather than evasion. I paid them for these services (an arm and a bloody leg) they paid their staff who paid tax and they paid tax on their profit so it wasnt unpaid

I found in the bad old days (pre Asian Melt down) that I had difficulty in getting senior staff to work over 20-30 hours overtime a month as they were paying 47% on hours over that and they said it just wasnt worth the effort.

Scotland has always managed to produce great people and then drive them out of the country, names that jump immediately to mind are Jame Watt and Andrew Carnegie. Even a friend of ours, a Gyno, left to practice in Memphis TN. He said he couldnt stand the restrictions placed on him and the $$$ he was offered together with the offered life style made his eyes pop out ------ it was an offer he couldnt resist.

Until Scotland realises it has to entice or keep Entrepeneurs and other top people it will continue to be generally a "Branch Office" country. Pushing up tax another 5% will hardly help provide that incentive. In spite of the laudable sentiment " they can Feck Off" if they object to paying it you do need them desperately and with incentives to keep them and their $$$ there not just penalise them.

People have gone on at great lengths how much the CEOs of your banks get paid. Banks are like any other business they dont pay staff including CEOs a cent more than they have too. Pay them less and they are offski. The CEOs of 2 of our major banks are Scots, they were head hunted. Also of the huge profits they make what dividends do the pay? Bear in mind the Top brasses' monies are a drop in the bucket of the total turn over.

The above paragraph is from my personal experience and may not be applicable to Scotland but I'll bet Im not far off

Unfortuantely Scotland has no say in taxation - currently.

Not all extremely rich folk have worked fur their dosh

If you work in a country - you pay tax in that country on what is earned there - not use some financial shennanigans to keep it off-shore.

Dpon't think most folk have a problem with using an accountant or tax adviser to minimise how much one pays - BUT they do when that minimising means they pay fuk all

Don't think most folk have a problem with payingh someone huge bucks if they and the company they work for perform well either
But it sticks in the craw when people are paid huge bucks for failure of their companies
For example - the boards of virtually all banks in the UK (well except the Airdrie Savings Bank)
Even todat Hester, in charge of RBS, is a complete numpty - he's one of those who came in after thefinancial fuck up and the only thing he's achieved is to continue the fuck=ups albeit in slightly differeing contexts.

Anyone can cut jobs, anyone can off-shore jobs, anyone can stand in front of TV cameras and spin shite - this isnt rocket science, yet we still reward failure, incompetence, corruption etc - especially with our banks

[bormes]

The real wealthy are not the target of this govt. NOR the bliar Govt., It is the middle income people who are targeted.
Last year some very wealthy companies paid NO tax at al but their stall mostly were on mini mum or part time wages. These Multi National companies ARE the danger NOT the wee guy like rolo's husband knocking his pan in for his own company nor the small business, it is the huge monopolies who suck the profit from us and AVOID it off shore that is who should be targeted.
Working for yourself in a small business is the hardest job of all, there is no back up and you make all the decisions and if you fail, your family and yourself lose and there is NO Govt., help and that for small business people is harder than the generational unemployed who are happy to be unemployed and believe the state owe them a living. When a small business person fails there is a high incidence of suicide too, many times overlooked by the Govt and press. I have more time for the self made person who works hard than all the financial immigrants put together.

[ozneil]

Oct 10, 2012 7:13:12 GMT -1 bormes said:

Working for yourself in a small business is the hardest job of all, there is no back up and you make all the decisions and if you fail, your family and yourself lose and there is NO Govt., help and that for small business people is harder than the generational unemployed who are happy to be unemployed and believe the state owe them a living. When a small business person fails there is a high incidence of suicide too, many times overlooked by the Govt and press. I have more time for the self made person who works hard than all the financial immigrants put together.

Agreed Bormes but I wouldnt ever have changed it for quids.

But a small business is exactly that. You need big businesses with head offices in Scotland to really get ahead.

You all seem to know the malaise but how do you cure it?

[bormes]

Thanks OZ
I am for the emphasis on small business, where we live in France and most of France there is still a thriving small business community, they have strong unions too and some large multi national companies and until Sarkosy left they large companies had a good tax deal as do ordinary workers too compared to the UK. VAT for any work on your house is dropped to 5% that encourages renovation and good maintainance and it can all be put against your tax bill.
Oz is correct about encouraging large companies but we must have a balance to allow people to work for themselves or we will all end up working for Tescos who sell everything and anything and cut prices but ONLY until the competition is removed, THEN they hike the prices and you can go no where else!! Our food prices have gone up 47% this last year yet farmers are getting LESS per unit, why? Because the Tesco of the world are taing bigger profits and have killed off the competition.
One example here in France is that the Government will NOT allow the huge conglomerates to sell everything, therefore we still have Chemist butcher baker and candlestick maker, tabac etc., and these are still mainly family businesses.
A balance is what we need and Govt are paid to sort it, unfortunately they find it hard.

[notanimby]

If the CEO of a large organisation is paid £100+million a year, then the tax rate being 45% or 50% isnt going to make much difference to him.
But if he uses his wife (staying in Monaco) as a conduit to ship the dosh abroad without paying tax, then thast is most definately wrong and shouldn't be allowed - their excuse being we employ people who pay tax -sop that is good enough
This is the excuse teh Philip Greens of this world use.


It's quite easy really to fix - you either tell such companies

you want to operate here and make money here, you pay tax here - tax dodgin companies such as Vodafone won't move off shore as they have to much business in UK anyways

or

for tax exiles - you want to live here (at least some of teh time)and/or retain your citiazenship here you pay tax here on your earnings here
If you don't agree fuk off and don't come back or you'll be arrested tooty-sweet as a tax dodjer.
In the case of Mrs Green - this is easy as vast majority of their business is UK based (its shops) are here - there's nowhere to run to

Yet small businesses are being targetted for extra strict treatment from the HMRC

[ozneil]

I read somewhere that here 75% of the workers (excluding Public Servants) work in small businesses of 25 or less employees.

Nota you mention telling companies that dont pay UK tax to eff off. UK has 60+ mill pop. What will happen when/if you get independence. You have a population of 5+ mill. Will you be in a position to dictate to the big multi-nationals?

I seem to remember there was some rule in the 90s that if you worked more than 90 days a year in UK you were liable for UK taxes. I didnt pay any attention as it didnt concern me

[bormes]

What people like nota and myself find hard to bear is that I still pay my taxes in UK even though with a French address and French wife we could dodge a significant amount, nota pays his taxes in UK too and we detest the idea of multi nationals paying NOTHING in the UK that is NOT right there must be a way for them to pay SOME tax.
We mqanaged better before Thatcher opened the gates for uncontrolled greed and continued and pushed farther by bliar.

[notanimby]

Oct 10, 2012 20:10:18 GMT -1 ozneil said:

I read somewhere that here 75% of the workers (excluding Public Servants) work in small businesses of 25 or less employees.

Nota you mention telling companies that dont pay UK tax to eff off. UK has 60+ mill pop. What will happen when/if you get independence. You have a population of 5+ mill. Will you be in a position to dictate to the big multi-nationals?

I seem to remember there was some rule in the 90s that if you worked more than 90 days a year in UK you were liable for UK taxes. I didnt pay any attention as it didnt concern me

The big multi-nationals like IBM, HP, ChungWah (sic), Singer, et al have all packed up and left, for points east - we were shafted and nothing to show for it.

I've no problem whatsoever with multi-nationals operating in Scotland - but there is no excuse for not paying taxes
Hopefully our tax regime will be fair with no loopholes.
If a multi-national wants to have say shops in Scotland selling stuff (Tescos) then they pay taxes on profits made in Scotland
Someone like Tesco aren't going to shut up all those shops and fuk off

As far as I know the 90 day rule still applies - thats far to long, especially when you're a UK citizen

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2012 6:27:13 GMT -1 notanimby said:

[


Dpon't think most folk have a problem with using an accountant or tax adviser to minimise how much one pays - BUT they do when that minimising means they pay fuk all

Don't think most folk have a problem with payingh someone huge bucks if they and the company they work for perform well either
But it sticks in the craw when people are paid huge bucks for failure of their companies
For example - the boards of virtually all banks in the UK (well except the Airdrie Savings Bank)
Even todat Hester, in charge of RBS, is a complete numpty - he's one of those who came in after thefinancial fuck up and the only thing he's achieved is to continue the fuck=ups albeit in slightly differeing contexts.

Anyone can cut jobs, anyone can off-shore jobs, anyone can stand in front of TV cameras and spin shite - this isnt rocket science, yet we still reward failure, incompetence, corruption etc - especially with our banks

And that's it in a nutshell, Nota ;D

Huge difference between being tax-efficient with investments, pensions, etc (which I think is called tax avoidance, legal) and tax EVASION, which is what I'm talking about.

Your friend, Oz, the gynae, well working in health in the USA is a very different thing to the UKE and most of Europe, not sure about Aus.
While there's literally a fortune to be made out of people's ill health in the US, not so here; but GPs are on £80,000-£100,000 while consultants in the NHS a fair bit more, and they're also free to work in the private health sector--- if their personal politics allow.

Now I would say that kind of salary is pretty reasonable and more than enough to have a comfortable lifestyle. I have a few medic friends, all of whom tend to be left-leaning and believe in the principles of the NHS--- and do the job because it's their vocation and not because they're greedy for cash.

I find it offensive when people who have been trained at Scottish taxpayers cost, then leave in search of 'greener pastures'. For training purposes, yes, for short periods, yes but it's like sticking your fingers up at the generosity of the people who've paid for your training.

Contentious, maybe, but that's how I feel.