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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 19:45:55 GMT -1
As I have said all along I dont know enough to form a definitive opinion but I thought Salmond was firing from the lip more often than not. The other mob were useless. I made my decision years ago and voted with my feet. I left and came home. And again. (Phew, this repetition is becoming tedious now...) Alex Salmond is the duly elected First Minister of Scotland, on a second term, with the mandate to deliver the referendum on behalf of the Scottish people. With me so far? He was not the leader of the YES campaign. Nicola Sturgeon led for the SNP, Patrick Harvie led for the Greens, Denis Canavan led for Indy Labour and Colin Fox led for the SSP. Alongside those pro-indy political groupings stood 45% of the electorate, whether affiliated to those parties or NOT. Still with me? Now, having read Democrat's posts in full and your own view here, it looks likely that decisions may have been made (or in your case, would have been made, Oz) on the basis of pure hatred for one man. As Demo pointed out authoritatively to Bormes, indy ref was not about removing short-term hated politicians such as David Cameron, George Osborne and Ed Miliband. Therefore, those who voted NO out of hatred for Alex Salmond are just as guilty of short-termism than those they would presume to accuse. Over to you. And Democrat, should he wish to reply?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 19:47:47 GMT -1
B of E controls the pound . THEY decide interest rates and can manipulate the vale of the pound against other currencies. You have to take it with no imput. DiDnt the treasurer say they wouldnt let you have control of pound. You are right in one thing I have only paid cursory attention to whole thing ... It is interesting but to not absorbing so I have prob missed aboUt 75% of what was bandied about. Yes, Oz. WE UNDERSTAND ABOUT B of E CONTROLLING THE INTEREST RATES. We always did. Now please tell me why a currency union would not have been workable?
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Post by ozneil on Sept 28, 2014 19:55:48 GMT -1
As I have said all along I dont know enough to form a definitive opinion but I thought Salmond was firing from the lip more often than not. The other mob were useless. I made my decision years ago and voted with my feet. I left and came home. And again. (Phew, this repetition is becoming tedious now...) Alex Salmond is the duly elected First Minister of Scotland, on a second term, with the mandate to deliver the referendum on behalf of the Scottish people. With me so far? He was not the leader of the YES campaign. Nicola Sturgeon led for the SNP, Patrick Harvie led for the Greens, Denis Canavan led for Indy Labour and Colin Fox led for the SSP. Alongside those pro-indy political groupings stood 45% of the electorate, whether affiliated to those parties or NOT. Still with me? Now, having read Democrat's posts in full and your own view here, it looks likely that decisions may have been made (or in your case, would have been made, Oz) on the basis of pure hatred for one man. As Demo pointed out authoritatively to Bormes, indy ref was not about removing short-term hated politicians such as David Cameron, George Osborne and Ed Miliband. Therefore, those who voted NO out of hatred for Alex Salmond are just as guilty of short-termism than those they would presume to accuse. Over to you. And Democrat, should he wish to reply? No Im not, Salmond is the face of the campaign here and only name mentioned so I use it. I did read of a guy called Swinny And some chick but it is all Salmond here therefore I use his name instead of the "Yes campaigners" it suits my lazy typing styles. I dont know him from a bar if soap to hate or love.
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Post by ozneil on Sept 28, 2014 19:58:43 GMT -1
B of E controls the pound . THEY decide interest rates and can manipulate the vale of the pound against other currencies. You have to take it with no imput. DiDnt the treasurer say they wouldnt let you have control of pound. You are right in one thing I have only paid cursory attention to whole thing ... It is interesting but to not absorbing so I have prob missed aboUt 75% of what was bandied about. Yes, Oz. WE UNDERSTAND ABOUT B of E CONTROLLING THE INTEREST RATES. We always did. Now please tell me why a currency union would not have been workable? It is workable if UK government agree but immediately every decisiopn has to made by 2 different entities with different objectives, not very practical If UK government refuse you any control you are stuffed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 20:02:23 GMT -1
No Im not, Salmond is the face of the campaign here and only name mentioned so I use it. I did read of a guy called Swinny And some chick but it is all Salmond here therefore I use his name instead of the "Yes campaigners" it suits my lazy typing styles. I dont know him from a bar if soap to hate or love. Yeah. Right. Pull the other one, Oz I don't believe for one millisecond you could possibly be so under-informed
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Post by ozneil on Sept 28, 2014 20:14:47 GMT -1
No Im not, Salmond is the face of the campaign here and only name mentioned so I use it. I did read of a guy called Swinny And some chick but it is all Salmond here therefore I use his name instead of the "Yes campaigners" it suits my lazy typing styles. I dont know him from a bar if soap to hate or love. Yeah. Right. Pull the other one, Oz I don't believe for one millisecond you could possibly be so under-informed About what? The Scottish papers demand a subscription so I dont read them. I read Oz and visit places like this and correspond with friends. I'm sorry but it is and was pretty low on my list of priorities so I basically read the headlines. as I sai didnt know enough to vote .
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Post by ozneil on Sept 28, 2014 20:25:51 GMT -1
PS 2 more worlds largest oil fields have been discovered recently. The South Sandwich and Timor sea fields.
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Post by ozneil on Sept 28, 2014 21:47:32 GMT -1
Rolo rote gees if I had known it was a mob like that I would have voted NO most of these "parties" couldnt organise a chook raffle in a pub.
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Post by democrat on Sept 29, 2014 13:53:08 GMT -1
As I have said all along I dont know enough to form a definitive opinion but I thought Salmond was firing from the lip more often than not. The other mob were useless. I made my decision years ago and voted with my feet. I left and came home. And again. (Phew, this repetition is becoming tedious now...) Alex Salmond is the duly elected First Minister of Scotland, on a second term, with the mandate to deliver the referendum on behalf of the Scottish people. With me so far? He was not the leader of the YES campaign. Nicola Sturgeon led for the SNP, Patrick Harvie led for the Greens, Denis Canavan led for Indy Labour and Colin Fox led for the SSP. Alongside those pro-indy political groupings stood 45% of the electorate, whether affiliated to those parties or NOT. Still with me? Now, having read Democrat's posts in full and your own view here, it looks likely that decisions may have been made (or in your case, would have been made, Oz) on the basis of pure hatred for one man. As Demo pointed out authoritatively to Bormes, indy ref was not about removing short-term hated politicians such as David Cameron, George Osborne and Ed Miliband. Therefore, those who voted NO out of hatred for Alex Salmond are just as guilty of short-termism than those they would presume to accuse. Over to you. And Democrat, should he wish to reply? It is widely accepted by political commentators that Alex Salmond and the SNP completely took over the Yes campaign and that the likes of Patrick Harvey and Colin Fox became peripheral figures. Even Swinney, MacAskill, Neill and the likes were reduced to spectators by Alex Salmond and Nichola Sturgeon. It was supposed to be cross party but the rest were shunted aside. The left wing views of Canavan, Fox and even Jim Sillars were seen as too much of an electoral liability for the SNP to allow them to share the platform ultimately (the confrontation between Canavan and Murphy on TV was an utterly appalling spectacle). To say I hate Alex Salmond is extreme, I have no hatred towards him at all and regard him as the most skilful politician in Scotland by some way. The fact that I think he miscalculated on many factors in the referendum campaign and cost his side victory doesn't translate to hate. If he had made more detailed plans for independence available and had presented them more effectively he may even have had me voting for his cause. I did vote SNP in the last Scottish election but I confess this was a protest vote against Labour for many reasons. I do, however, find Mr Salmond to be arrogant and dismissive in style and that does not endear him to me. The views you've expressed above on your perception of my stance are just about as far away from what I think as they possibly could be.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 18:09:10 GMT -1
and that the likes of Patrick Ha t is widely accepted by political commentators that Alex Salmond and the SNP completely took over the Yes campaignrvey and Colin Fox became peripheral figures. Even Swinney, MacAskill, Neill and the likes were reduced to spectators by Alex Salmond and Nichola Sturgeon. It was supposed to be cross party but the rest were shunted aside. The left wing views of Canavan, Fox and even Jim Sillars were seen as too much of an electoral liability for the SNP to allow them to share the platform ultimately (the confrontation between Canavan and Murphy on TV was an utterly appalling spectacle). To say I hate Alex Salmond is extreme, I have no hatred towards him at all and regard him as the most skilful politician in Scotland by some way. The fact that I think he miscalculated on many factors in the referendum campaign and cost his side victory doesn't translate to hate. If he had made more detailed plans for independence available and had presented them more effectively he may even have had me voting for his cause. I did vote SNP in the last Scottish election but I confess this was a protest vote against Labour for many reasons. I do, however, find Mr Salmond to be arrogant and dismissive in style and that does not endear him to me. The views you've expressed above on your perception of my stance are just about as far away from what I think as they possibly could be. It is widely accepted by those who read the mainstream media and watch mainstream TV and listen to mainstream radio that Alex Salmond was elevated into 'appearing' to be the leader of the YES campaign, you mean! The man, who is our elected First Minister, was subjected to attack after attack: he was demonised and monstered throughout the campaign. This also happened in some international newspapers, as OZ will no doubt attest, given that he was unaware that any other 'parties' or 'leaders' acted as spokespeople. You'll note, having an analytical mindset, that I didn't actually accuse yourself of 'hating' Alex Salmond: however there are plenty who freely admit they voted NO because of they did. You said as much yourself when you referred to him as a 'marmite' politician, in another post, no? I think your position of voting SNP last time round, as a protest vote against Labour, is not uncommon. However, over 40% of Labour voters went on to vote YES and many have deserted membership of that party to join the SNP in huge numbers! Alex Salmond's done the honourable thing in standing down and leaving the field clear for Nicola. I respect him for that. He has achieved a great deal as party leader and as First Minister and I think we can rely on the fact he's not 'going away' any time soon. Bad news for you, Demo!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 18:15:38 GMT -1
Given we're now talking the exact same topic over two threads, I've moved this one into 'Politics'. Carry on, folks!
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