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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 23:51:18 GMT -1
Are you saying you think the UK should leave the EU because 'we' no longer get 'priority' when migrating to Aus?
There's so much uninformed shite talked about EU immigration to the UK. I do think people forget sometimes that migration is reciprocal.
Plenty UK folks migrate within the EU and expect the same rights (including WELFARE) as those who migrate into the UK from the EU!
"Some migrant families here look on welfare as a lifestyle option" is the common thread of most right-wing media here too, Oz. Except it's not actually true here.
The VAST majority of benefit recipients in the UK are not migrants: they are pensioners, families on family allowance and tax credits, working people on top up benefits and sick and/or disabled people and their carers.
Gloomy? Maybe so. Or perhaps just a different way of looking at things, cos I personally believe how any country treats its weakest pretty much defines its people and their values.
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Post by ozneil on Feb 7, 2015 1:01:17 GMT -1
Gees There you go again All I am saying is that since UK joined the UE We have lost reciprocal right of residence in each others countries. Its a pity but there it is You know my opinion of UK and EU but that doesnt alter the above As for welfare as a lifestyle amongst certain migrant communities, that is HERE, I wouldnt know about UK, No one disputes that here though some bleeding hearts will try to excuse it. They are a small percentage of the whole but still a significant number and they are not alone in choosing that lifestyle Rolo rote . Couldnt agree more but still no excuse for a nanny state
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Post by celyn on Feb 7, 2015 2:05:46 GMT -1
... that is HERE, I wouldnt know about UK ... I welcome this admission, and can only applaud this sudden outburst of accuracy and honesty.
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Post by ozneil on Feb 7, 2015 4:50:18 GMT -1
... that is HERE, I wouldnt know about UK ... I welcome this admission, and can only applaud this sudden outburst of accuracy and honesty. Bows to the superlative
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 21:39:06 GMT -1
This 'nanny state' you refer to, Oz.
We hear about this phenomenon (phew! third try lucky) a great deal from our right-wing UK press and media.
I'm really not sure what it means.
I suppose I could, you know, 'g**gle' but I'd rather hear from someone who uses the term and their understanding of it.
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Post by ozneil on Feb 7, 2015 22:32:26 GMT -1
You wouldnt get it left wing press , they support it.
Put simply its government at all levels saying "we know better than you about everything ... do as we say and dont argue"
Examples of this are myriad and the numbers where Blind Freddy could see they are wrong are legion.
Ones that jump to mind are "Child Care" eg The Orkney kids fiasco. Taking kids away from school for perfectly valid reasons eg A funeral overseas where kids were away from school more than the allowed 3 days, parents were prosecuted.... utter red tape stupidity.
Need I go on? you all know far better than me the stupid petty regulations you have to live with for "your own safety".
People dont need the government to hold their hands, most should and can make their own decisions
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 22:55:32 GMT -1
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Post by ozneil on Feb 7, 2015 23:01:22 GMT -1
My case rests. Let the Darwin theory run free Mind you our local authorities are as stupid! There is a "jumping rock" at Manly where the kids jump off into the sea, its about 30 feet high. Manly council erected a 6ft fence round it to stop the kids . The jump is now 36 feet
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 23:17:09 GMT -1
People dont need the government to hold their hands, most should and can make their own decisions In an ideal world, yes. But aren't you coming at it from the perspective of a rational, educated person with a modicum of common sense? Is it really 'nanny-stating' to have robust child protection policies, for example? While some parents take their kids out of school for bonafide reasons, there will be others who allow them to stay off for other, more chaotic, reasons. You'd hope parents would always act in the best interests of their children but it's just not always the case, Oz, and the welfare of the kids has to be paramount where parents are neglectful, shirley? Huge hilarity tonight on social networking re the daffodil edict. But the truth is 27 people mistook bulbs for food and got poisoned. And it's not unknown for tiny children to drink noxious substances not locked away at home, to have access to household knives,window blind cords, and in the US last week, a mother's loaded gun. Sometimes it's a lack of care. Sometimes it's that the parents can't read or understand labels. Often it's the lack of foreseeing consequences. Health and safety regs can seem utterly ridiculous, I grant you. But drink-driving's another example. Is it OK to allow people to judge for themselves if they're capable of driving? One guy I know made *his own decision* on that--and ploughed into two young people on his way home from the pub. He's in jail. Isn't it better to lay down ground-rules than to pick up the pieces when people's DECISIONS are bad ones?
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Post by ozneil on Feb 7, 2015 23:35:33 GMT -1
Of course.
Its a question of where you draw the line between common sense, stupidity and overkill.
Parents by and large know far better than a recent graduate how best to look after their kids and have their kids welfare very much to heart
But as always there are exceptions
Drink driving I have zero tolerance for. I may knock over some one in a "no-Blame" accident but if I had even one drink on board I would always wonder and feel guilty so best not and keep all my wits about me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 23:03:11 GMT -1
Of course. Its a question of where you draw the line between common sense, stupidity and overkill.
Parents by and large know far better than a recent graduate how best to look after their kids and have their kids welfare very much to heart But as always there are exceptions Drink driving I have zero tolerance for. I may knock over some one in a "no-Blame" accident but if I had even one drink on board I would always wonder and feel guilty so best not and keep all my wits about me. Who draws that line, is the question, Oz. Nanny-state, though. Such a right-wing way of describing how some societies choose to take best care of their people. An easy standpoint to take when you've grown up blessed by advantages: hands on family support and state investment in your education! Yes, I laughed out loud at the Daffodil Edict, like ANYONE could be daft enough to mistake the bulbs for onions. But some did. So it's not that difficult to just you know, remove that risk with a bit of judicious rearrangement, shirley? One of my earliest memories is sitting an entrance test for my primary school. It was a classic "Picture" IQ test. So there's a guy pruning a tree, perched on a branch facing the trunk. Sawing off the branch he's sitting on and not looking in the least bit alarmed. I so remember getting a bit upset and said "The man will fall down". I was 4 and a half. I'd had the luxury of being out and about in a big family, was talked to, read to, looked after, encouraged and not papped into a corner with only the TV for company. Now, it's not uncommon that children are starting school at 5 who can't write their name, can't use cutlery, and in some tragic cases, are still in nappies. It's not that these kids are any less intelligent or lacking in common sense, it's just that they've not been properly nurtured or cared for. Who else will look out for them, if the so-called 'nanny-state' doesn't? Blame is easy.
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Post by ozneil on Feb 9, 2015 23:59:45 GMT -1
Very hard question that of who draws the line. I certainly dont know (Cue Celyn"
All what you say is true. I think common sense sets the parameters
The Kindie teachers and early primary teachers can usually draw attention without a definite rule book and school can inform Social services . They do here.
Asked Mrs Oz my early childhood expert... She says on the very rare occasion she spots a problem she reports it to the deputy who reports to Social Services if necessary ... It is done verbally. Usually its dirt, lice or lack of decent clothes and perhaps illness . She has never had a beaten up child. Usually sorted out a school level with a social worker visiting.
She has in many years teaching never seen a kid removed for parents and that "draconian Laws" have no place in a school with kids.
She is bloody annoyed she isnt allowed to hug a kid that desperately needs it!
Mrs Oz got them that couldnt speak a word of English let alone write their name... They soon learned
PS According to Mrs Oz the only difference between the Kids themselves in Dee Why and Annfield was the accent .
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