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Post by bormes on Jun 20, 2014 16:17:20 GMT -1
Perhaps I am being a tiny wee bit cynical, however, I have to confess I prefer to see these two fighting each other, rather than us involved in fighting them.
That said, no doubt we will have some nutters come to the UK and also more of the bred in the Uk variety, do some bloody and evil acts on behalf of their religion fairly soon?
This isis mob are certainly very organised compared to some nonsense but the thing they all have in common, is their total committment to savagery.
Hope the UK Government manage to keep us out of this one?
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Post by notanimby on Jun 20, 2014 18:52:00 GMT -1
Perhaps I am being a tiny wee bit cynical, however, I have to confess I prefer to see these two fighting each other, rather than us involved in fighting them. That said, no doubt we will have some nutters come to the UK and also more of the bred in the Uk variety, do some bloody and evil acts on behalf of their religion fairly soon? This isis mob are certainly very organised compared to some nonsense but the thing they all have in common, is their total committment to savagery. Hope the UK Government manage to keep us out of this one? bbbbbbut the Iranians are oor pals noo, well for this week anyways.. Which is weird as the Saudis, qataris, and the emirates are all Sunnis ( or a flavour of) how will that be squared. I was more laughing at Bliars mad statement on how it wisnae his r the yank's fault in the first place........ What an arseholes, does he really expect people to believe anything he says anymore, its his and bush's fault in the first place, they were well waned but naw, bush's corporate backers wanted to make some dosh at the expense of hundreds of thousands of lives, well fuck them, you reap what you sow. With Blar admitting ow that regime change was the raisin d'être, hopefully a spell at The Ague beckons as that's a war crime - we live in hope..... |
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Post by ozneil on Jun 20, 2014 20:34:44 GMT -1
We have cancelled 40 or 50 passports of the nutters that have left here to fight in Syria or Iraq. It means they cannot return.
The government is also considering stripping Dual nationalities of their citizenship.
The Sunni & the Shi ites have been fighting each other for a 1000 years.
No reason why we should become involved
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Post by ozneil on Jun 20, 2014 23:42:18 GMT -1
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Post by bormes on Jun 21, 2014 7:33:19 GMT -1
On the news over here OZ a couple of UK subjects and an OZ one bumming to the cameras about their fighting for isis.
Allegedly there are over 500 UK subjects in Syria alone.
I would urge the UK Govt. To remove their Passports.
Some people are likening them to people from the UK who years ago went to fight against Franco.
I accept that is pretty true, with the difference being in which ideology you wish to fight for.
Again like the people from Eire, Canada, South Africa, etc., etc., who came to fight for the Allies before their country was involved or their country never declared, yet they still came to fight for the Allies, so we can argue these Twunts are just the same but with a different ideology?
Again there is no honour in killing, if one drops a bomb from an aircraft from 20,000 Feet or a Drone attack, it is killing just the same as an isis unit coming into a village and publicly decapitating twenty villagers for whatever reason.
The difference is only a very personal one, the Drone attack can be done by anyone, a relation of mine's eldest daughter does this job and I am certain she could not do a similar job on the ground, where the actual act close up is distasteful and the effect is immediate with the smell never forgotten, the actual violence up close and the after effects are difficult to move on from, which in the UK Forces was never mentioned, Lads who were genuinely suffering from the awful things they witnessed or took part in were told to "Get a grip" Or his pals told to go and get him "Pissed"
I suppose my point is, in some ways it might be said that it does not matter how they are killed as both systems kill people!
Well, it does matter to me I would be delighted to kill our enemies by Drone and keep our young people safer.
That said, I would NOT be galavanting around the Middle East, or elsewhere fighting where it was nothing to do with us, except Oil maybe?
That is a big reason for voting YES as we will have a DEFENSIVE Force!!
I hope Bliar is eventually brought to the Hague to face a war crime trial.
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Post by notanimby on Jun 21, 2014 12:11:01 GMT -1
On the news over here OZ a couple of UK subjects and an OZ one bumming to the cameras about their fighting for isis. Allegedly there are over 500 UK subjects in Syria alone. I would urge the UK Govt. To remove their Passports. Some people are likening them to people from the UK who years ago went to fight against Franco. I accept that is pretty true, with the difference being in which ideology you wish to fight for. Again like the people from Eire, Canada, South Africa, etc., etc., who came to fight for the Allies before their country was involved or their country never declared, yet they still came to fight for the Allies, so we can argue these Twunts are just the same but with a different ideology? Again there is no honour in killing, if one drops a bomb from an aircraft from 20,000 Feet or a Drone attack, it is killing just the same as an isis unit coming into a village and publicly decapitating twenty villagers for whatever reason. The difference is only a very personal one, the Drone attack can be done by anyone, a relation of mine's eldest daughter does this job and I am certain she could not do a similar job on the ground, where the actual act close up is distasteful and the effect is immediate with the smell never forgotten, the actual violence up close and the after effects are difficult to move on from, which in the UK Forces was never mentioned, Lads who were genuinely suffering from the awful things they witnessed or took part in were told to "Get a grip" Or his pals told to go and get him "Pissed" I suppose my point is, in some ways it might be said that it does not matter how they are killed as both systems kill people! Well, it does matter to me I would be delighted to kill our enemies by Drone and keep our young people safer. That said, I would NOT be galavanting around the Middle East, or elsewhere fighting where it was nothing to do with us, except Oil maybe? That is a big reason for voting YES as we will have a DEFENSIVE Force!! I hope Bliar is eventually brought to the Hague to face a war crime trial. Excellent valid points, one very apt one I would add is this - in 1980/1 the UK and the USA trained, armed and financed the mujahideen in Afghanistan, in their fight against the soviets. One of the stars of that group was Osama bin laden, look how that turned out. The UK and the USA seem totally incapable of learning from history, that is recent 30 years ago and sooner, not a100+, now the same clowns in their haste to arm the opposition in Libya and Syria have again armed, trained and financed these nutters and still want to keep on doing it - how stupid can they really be? Looking at it from a slightly different angle, virtually the only static regime in the area is Iran, who would have thunk it, all the other oil rich countries are also helping to fund and arm the Sunnis, as its a good way of slapping the Iranians, and the Brits and yanks went along with that to keep on their good, oil side. Maybe the west would have been better off siding with the Iranians after all, they are not Arabs, hence part of the animosity from the Arab states. They appear to be the actual ones with the sensible approach more often than not I wonder if anyone in the origin office ever wonders how the Middle East would have turned out, if the UK hadn't shafted the Arabs after WW1 and made a complete fuck up of creating the current Arab states and their daft artificial borders, never mind the ongoing ludicrous brown nosing of the zionists |
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Post by bormes on Jun 21, 2014 16:21:36 GMT -1
Very valid observations Nota which Zi agree with.
I really liked Iran and found the people charming, unfortunately in the hatred of the Peacock Throne the change allowed the religous nutters scope to give their anger and hatred of the west full reign for years although hopefully under this new fellow, who was in Glasgow, things may return a bit to more what they used to be like, a pro western friendly country that is well worth a visit, in fact it was our favourite place en route to Delhi, the worst being Pakistan and a close second, southern Yugoslavia!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2014 2:08:06 GMT -1
Looks like we're unanimous here, so far...
1) Quit interfering in someone else's war, other than to provide humanitarian aid/peacekeeping duty.
2) Prosecute Blair for war-crimes.
I'd just like to mention, in context, a difficult conversation I had during a seminar at the conference in Bern I was at last week.
The theme of the conference was Music and Politics. During a discussion about how the West interferes in other global warzones, a gentleman from Austria commented that Britain, in mainland Europe's opinion, aligned ourselves more with US foreign policy and did not stand in solidarity with Europe.
Many others agreed.
The Scottish contingent were mortified, to be honest, and tried to assure our European colleagues that this was not the case, not for the majority of Scots, anyway. I put forward the point that an independent Scotland would embrace EU collaboration and would only have a defence force, rather than a warmongering arrogant stance towards conflicts elsewhere.
I want AWAY from the foreign policy of the current UKE government and their US counterparts. As you say, Nota, we reap what we sow.
Should also say I saw the best keynote speech ever, of all the conferences I've been at over the years. Delivered by Ivo Jospovic, a musician/composer and President of Croatia, who totally nailed how Music meets Politics in the most entertaining yet relevant way.
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Post by bormes on Jun 26, 2014 12:21:11 GMT -1
Round of applause for Rolo, YES that is how we would like Scotland to be!!
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Post by peony on Jun 26, 2014 12:23:14 GMT -1
That's how I'd like the US to be as well.
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Post by ozneil on Jun 26, 2014 20:27:03 GMT -1
I sometimes wish we had done that in 1939 for all the thanks we got
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Post by bormes on Jun 27, 2014 6:33:16 GMT -1
I understand that and I think the US and yourselves in the nit too far future will be in an uneasy truce with EU as the world resources dwindle?
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Post by ozneil on Jun 27, 2014 8:50:34 GMT -1
I understand that and I think the US and yourselves in the nit too far future will be in an uneasy truce with EU as the world resources dwindle? Dont know about the US but we dont need the EU. Our trade is with Asia and the Americas now |
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Post by bormes on Jun 27, 2014 9:10:01 GMT -1
With the US moving most of its carrier fleet and Subs down your way Oz, methinks you dont have a lot of choice, a bit like us after WW2
They are down there in force warning China etc., it is THEIR sphere of influence.
I think your trade with them will pick up soon?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 18:27:38 GMT -1
That's how I'd like the US to be as well. Is there much support for your view in the US, Peony? It's quite hard to know from here, we have to filter everything through the fairly black and white reportage via news media. I think there's a lot of disquiet here in Scotland--and indeed in the broader UKE--- re routine interference/regime change carried out by the West. Not least the apparent willingness of our so-called leaders to sacrifice our young people as cannon fodder. Someone else's kids of course, not their own.  |
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