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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 21:40:25 GMT -1
Interesting question re the independence issue?
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Post by notanimby on Dec 31, 2012 6:26:19 GMT -1
Interesting question re the independence issue? |
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Post by westender on Dec 31, 2012 15:46:14 GMT -1
I don't have, not have I ever had, any concept of the UK.
I don't feel it, I don't recognise it, and it has scunnered me throughout my life that when the rest of the world refers to 'Brits' (usually in terms of atrocious and objectionable behaviour) what they're actually referring to usually turns out to be the bliddy *nglish.
But hey, the fact that the nations of the UK have been obliterated in the eyes of the world by the bliddy *nglish is not the rest of the world's fault.
One wonders about things like the movies. James Bond is all about the UK; Judi Dench's 'M' had a bulldog on her desk. Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. Spooks. The Professionals. They're all specifically about the good of the UK. If they're any kind of accurate reflection of the British secret services, then Eck would be under threat of assassination by them, surely... he'd be seen as a major threat to everything they stand for.
I'm a Scot, through and through, and a west of Scotland Scot at that. This is my country and I feel strong things when I think about it. My country, as far as I'm concerned, is nothing to do with the notional entity that is the UK. I have long thought we are not like the *nglish, we are totally different people. We're socialists. We are not servants. We approach the world differently, our mindset is completely different. That's not intended as xenophobia, it's just an observation.
Of course we should be independent. Westminster govt has got nothing to do with us; it hasn't been representative of us - and indeed has been demonstrably uncomprehending and contemptuous of us - for a long, long time.
The only thing I could begin to feel qualms about, some measure of guilt about, if my country was to become independent, would be upon contemplating the country's war memorials, of WW1 & WW2. Those men knew, or at least believed in, the chimera they were fighting for.
But the past is another country, and what they fought for then bears no resemblance to the way things are now. They paid the ultimate sacrifice for their cause, but that's not enough - nothing like enough - to justify maintaining this dismal and unfair status quo we find ourselves in now.
So I'll miss nothing about 'Britain'... there's nothing to miss. I don't fear change... well, not this change anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 2:34:52 GMT -1
I'm a Scot, through and through, and a west of Scotland Scot at that. This is my country and I feel strong things when I think about it. My country, as far as I'm concerned, is nothing to do with the notional entity that is the UK. I have long thought we are not like the *nglish, we are totally different people. We're socialists. We are not servants. We approach the world differently, our mindset is completely different. That's not intended as xenophobia, it's just an observation. So I'll miss nothing about 'Britain'... there's nothing to miss. I don't fear change... well, not this change anyway. And it's a fair observation, Westie. ;D The whole notion of our independence is not about giving it anti-English (or even anti-European) sentiments, it's about being pro-Scottish. The Yes campaign's not about us becoming isolationist ;D The opposite, in fact, as our government sets big store by learning from best practice in other countries all over the world. Our friends and rellies in the rest of the UKE will not be deemed foreigners (the latest scaremongering salvo from Westminster  )...it's so silly it really does beggar belief. But worse is to come; the Unionists, Labour, Tory and LibDem, will give it all manner of gloves-off nonsense in 2013. Designed to scare our country's people away from the belief we have the skills and talents to govern ourselves. Government by fear. It's as if they think we're all stupid northern hick-people and don't see their self-interest for what it is  <biding our time...  > |
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Post by bormes on Jan 2, 2013 10:08:03 GMT -1
I wonder if all the people who sing loudly at Rugby and Football International matches about sending Edward's Army homeward to think again, will actually do that, or are they like the Celtic "supporters" who are always going on about Eire and the ira??
Personally I think Westy has it about right !!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2013 20:43:37 GMT -1
I suspect the days of Flower of Scotland as alternative 'national anthem' are numbered, Bormes.  Too cringeworthily dirge-like, and too anti-English. Not what independence is about. Something a bit more uplifting, melodically and lyrically might be a better idea all round. Any suggestions? Loads of people favour Highland Cathedral but I find it equally dirge-like. 500 Miles by the Proclaimers also a contender... I'd love it to be Dignity though. Such an enduring and much loved song. As relevant now than it ever was. There'll be a reason for that. www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsr9HCOgQe0 |
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Post by notanimby on Jan 5, 2013 21:17:29 GMT -1
We need an anthem like this, Australia's alternative one........ m.youtube.com/watch?v=aSoGJQkKDYkAustralia's current anthem was written by a guy from Port Glasgow.......... P.s Judith Durham has some voice |
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Post by ozneil on Jan 5, 2013 21:47:48 GMT -1
link didnt work on my puter try this one www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjkrjYitgeA&feature=relatedThat is more or less an unofficial National Anthem Though if ever a bunch of half pissed Aussies get together Waltzing Matilda always turns up. I remember in a pub in Rose Street, just round from the Australian Commissioners office in Edinburgh, after a Wallabies / Scotland game at Murrayfield a mob of Aussies took it over and after a few sherberts starting sing all the old favourites . By chucking out time we had a lot of honouray Aussies amongst the patrons. Was some night, Walrzing Matilda featured several times. It can be sung either fast and cheerful or slow and sad. I seem to remember a piano and some guy that could play anything but its all a bit hazy |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 2:42:29 GMT -1
link didnt work on my puter try this one www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjkrjYitgeA&feature=relatedThat is more or less an unofficial National Anthem Though if ever a bunch of half pissed Aussies get together Waltzing Matilda always turns up. I remember in a pub in Rose Street, just round from the Australian Commissioners office in Edinburgh, after a Wallabies / Scotland game at Murrayfield a mob of Aussies took it over and after a few sherberts starting sing all the old favourites . By chucking out time we had a lot of honouray Aussies amongst the patrons. Was some night, Walrzing Matilda featured several times. It can be sung either fast and cheerful or slow and sad. I seem to remember a piano and some guy that could play anything but its all a bit hazy Hell Oz, you been hazy on Rose Street as well? Shirley not... Just as Aussies crissed as a picket might sing Waltzing Matilda same here with Flower of Scotland All good when bonding in the pub but neither are fitting national anthems, are they, really? You can speed em up tempo-wise but there's still a deep underlying mourny thing going on. Defensive, on the back foot... Isn't it about time we all got DEFIANT?
The late Eric Bogle; www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHbT25trkE |
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Post by ozneil on Jan 6, 2013 3:20:41 GMT -1
Bogle's song is so sad and the sacrifice so pointless. Caused by one of Churchill's fuck ups, Turks had months' warning of landing then the Royal Navy dropped our guys on wrong Beach, 3 miles wrong. Hamilton the Brit commander refused to allow them to evacuate. He was relived of command. However Here's the way it should be sung raucously www.youtube.com/watch?v=UORKwBTKWqwbut hardly fit for a national athem . A song about an interant worker who knocks off a sheep and jumps into a ox-bow to dodge the cops |
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Post by notanimby on Jan 6, 2013 8:36:32 GMT -1
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Post by bormes on Jan 6, 2013 10:32:42 GMT -1
Well, god save the Queen in the next verse goes on about crushing us Scots, so I personally am quite happy for Flower of Scotland to be sung, I also rather like Frankie Miller singing Caledonia.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 17:51:32 GMT -1
Yeah, Bormes, Caledonia's well up there as the next Scottish anthem. I like Frankie's version but also Dougie McLean's (he wrote it too..). Love the Pete Seeger song too, Nota. I certainly wouldn't miss God Save The Queen after independence. Remember when it used to be played every night when the telly closed down...about 11pm? Feels like a lifetime ago.... |
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Post by notanimby on Jan 7, 2013 17:58:30 GMT -1
Yeah, Bormes, Caledonia's well up there as the next Scottish anthem. I like Frankie's version but also Dougie McLean's (he wrote it too..). Love the Pete Seeger song too, Nota. I certainly wouldn't miss God Save The Queen after independence. Remember when it used to be played every night when the telly closed down...about 11pm? Feels like a lifetime ago.... Ah remember the stampedes tae get oot the picture hall before it came on too efter the lat screening |
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Post by notanimby on Jan 7, 2013 18:13:18 GMT -1
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