Alex Salmond's response to Syria 'action'

[Deleted]

Sept 6, 2013 20:34:59 GMT -1 ozneil said:

Thanks Nota

It would appear that UK imports 40% of food.

I would think very carefully about artificially increasing population by migrants and refugees. Certainly help them if possible.

You're right in that a huge percentage of food's imported to the UKE.
However, I'd suggest this is due to first world priorities, the need for vast choice of world cuisines, rather than an ability to survive--and live well, on what we produce.

It's led by the marketeers, the big supermarket conglomerates, who'd rather import foods cheaply than endorse local producers.
Cheap food is cheap for a reason. It's generally bulked out by added water, sugar, salt and chemical preservatives.

Btw re immigrants and refugees: Scotland's population has not risen exponentially. In fact it's remained pretty static.

Everyone who wants to live, work and contribute in Scotland is welcome.

[Deleted]

Sept 6, 2013 7:19:30 GMT -1 bormes said:

Disagree Rolo we are a tiny country, Scotland with the majority of our land unsuitable for decent farming, our hill farms can have approx 1 sheep compared to the average in England of 5 sheep per acre for feeding.
We HAD an abundance of fish, until UK Govet., squandered our fishing rights to suit the English Capitol.
In Scotland at the moment we have a good balance of population and available useful land whereas in my post I referred to the UK being overpopulated and it IS.
The world is OVERPOPULATED.
Feeding someone is a temporary solution, show them how to feed themselves is a better idea?

We still have an abundance of fish...but the vast majority harvested here in Scotland's packed into refrigerated trucks rolling towards Europe, where they know a good thing when they see it.

This would be because in the UKE, we've become inured to cheap, horrible excuses for food as punted at us by supermarkets. In the name of 'convenience'.

I truly believe Scotland could be self-sufficient in the very best of foods, from fish to meat to seasonable veg, grains and fruits.

The key is to teach our children, at an early age, how to cook and use what we produce to best advantage.

The problem is we've allowed the junk food ethic to proliferate. More fool us.

[ozneil]

Sept 7, 2013 1:28:05 GMT -1 @rolo said:

Btw re immigrants and refugees: Scotland's population has not risen exponentially. In fact it's remained pretty static.

Everyone who wants to live, work and contribute in Scotland is welcome.

Yeah I'll buy that one. They even invited me to go back!!!!

From my limited observations Scotland has a population of about 5.5 million yet there is an abundance of Scots accents here in all sorts of spheres so I conclude the hell of a lot of Scots emigrate. I believe we are third on the list (excluding England & EU) after Canada and NZ so how is your population remaining stable with such big losses? perhaps migrants?

Umpteen years ago the Glasgow Herald ran a survey of Scots throughout the world. They defined a Scot as someone who was born in Scotland or who had a parent born in Scotland ( Bastards never asked if I wanted to be considered Scottish ) They found that of an estimated populace, if thatis the right word? of 17.5 million only 5 million lived in Scotland.

Verra Interrrrrresting

[bormes]

I remember that OZ and it was used in some political rhetoric at the time.
Yes Rolo a lot of truth in what you say about food and how we are fed now.
However more immigrants, why? Can we. Not just try to sort out the. HUGE problems we will be left with regarding jobs, pensions, health, sectarianism, religion just to name a few, so why bring in more immigrants? Personally from what I have read from OZ it seems a much better system and I would also not be keen to bring more Islamic people into Scotland, they do not mix and for anyone who doubts this for one second, visit any large City in England or France.
Can Scotland not support birth control world wide? Why are the SNP so quiet about that? Are they afraid they will lose the RC vote?
Why will the SNP not say they will stop funding faith schools in fact why not just ban them?

[Deleted]

Sept 7, 2013 5:52:53 GMT -1 bormes said:

I remember that OZ and it was used in some political rhetoric at the time.
Yes Rolo a lot of truth in what you say about food and how we are fed now.
However more immigrants, why? Can we. Not just try to sort out the. HUGE problems we will be left with regarding jobs, pensions, health, sectarianism, religion just to name a few, so why bring in more immigrants? Personally from what I have read from OZ it seems a much better system and I would also not be keen to bring more Islamic people into Scotland, they do not mix and for anyone who doubts this for one second, visit any large City in England or France.
Can Scotland not support birth control world wide? Why are the SNP so quiet about that? Are they afraid they will lose the RC vote?
Why will the SNP not say they will stop funding faith schools in fact why not just ban them?

As ever, Bormes, a shedload of good points in one brief post ;D

Are we not agreed though, that successive UKE governments of whatever hue, have operated an open border policy and that we all feel it would be better to have controlled immigration? I think so.

But we are where we are.

So isn't it best to look forward to finding ways to manage the whole shebang to our advantage by investing in the national services such as NHS and education, while gratefully receiving the tax income from all those who choose to live and work here?

Re birth control, that's a whole other topic, isn't it? The UKE birthrate is at an all-time low, as is most of Europe's. But that is going to be an issue in the future as there will be WAY less contributors to the public tax coffers.

Put simply, every immigrant to Scotland who works and contributes, and brings up a family here who themselves will go on to do the same, are welcome here. Scotland is not England, nor France. Things are different from here and one helluva lot more sanguine, IMV.

Re faith schools, I'm hoping you'll find the SNP have views on that, which will become apparent in the coming weeks.

[bormes]

Well Rolo you make a good argument for the SNP, however I am biased toward them anyway. However I can find no justification in allowing in immigrants from particularly Islamic countries to do what they have done in England.
Yes we are different from England but with the best will in the world we can not change forcibly or otherwise the way people behave and think when they arrive here. They do not have an epiphany and suddenly think, oh I must mix with. The Scot and enjoy what they do. No they live here enjoying the benefits of living here, which are thousands of times better than where they came from, yet they still listen to the drivel (my opinion) being spouted to them from mosques and imams who do NOT want their people to integrate. England has with Holland shown that they do not mix do not wish to mix and now are calling for their own laws and systems to be allowed.
England is in serious trouble, I do not want Scotland to go the same way. I fear with some people they can not nor will not recognise this.

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2013 7:02:43 GMT -1 bormes said:

Well Rolo you make a good argument for the SNP, however I am biased toward them anyway. However I can find no justification in allowing in immigrants from particularly Islamic countries to do what they have done in England.
Yes we are different from England but with the best will in the world we can not change forcibly or otherwise the way people behave and think when they arrive here. They do not have an epiphany and suddenly think, oh I must mix with. The Scot and enjoy what they do. No they live here enjoying the benefits of living here, which are thousands of times better than where they came from, yet they still listen to the drivel (my opinion) being spouted to them from mosques and imams who do NOT want their people to integrate. England has with Holland shown that they do not mix do not wish to mix and now are calling for their own laws and systems to be allowed.
England is in serious trouble, I do not want Scotland to go the same way. I fear with some people they can not nor will not recognise this.

Just a bit of a sweeping generalisation there, maybe, my friend? Yes, there are undeniable issues with some of the more intractable 'religions' but it would shirley be a mistake to tar all immigrants with the same brush. Their children will make change become necessary and it won't be a conversion to Sharia law, that's never going to happen.

Here in Scotland we celebrate the contribution immigrants make to our communities and to our culture. Ikechi Anya is a prime example of this.

Scotland helped give this boy a good start in life and I for one am proud that he's returned to play football for the national side. His father's Nigerian, his mother Romanian, and it's highly unlikely he'd have had the same chances in either of those countries.

www.scotsman.com/news/ikechi-anya-from-castlemilk-to-scotland-squad-1-3072499

The only serious worry I have about the future of Scotland is that if people are SO scared of change we end up being governed from Westmnister ad infinitum...we're so much better than that.

[bormes]

Yes I do not wish to be governed by Westminster at all.
However you have managed to give an example of one young man playing football and I do not think he is Islamic.
The hate preachers of Islam ARE the problem and it is the YOUNG ones you are talking about that ARE the problem, they are in some cases fourth generation and many, thousands of them are training and fighting in Islamic conflicts all over the world, Islam is completely driven to have Islam as the world religion and count the number of countries who are at war or internal conflict with Islam right now. Is that a coincidence?
Our UK is OVERCROWDED, the world is overcrowded.
Incidentally sharia law is already being used in marital disputes in England in five major cities.
In a "democracy" UK if enough people vote to change something, the law, as has already been done in the UK as Scotland as part of the Act of Union had to have it's own legal system, that has now been over rided by the UK Supreme Court being now the highest in the land thereby making a mockery of the Scottish system. That means in the democracy of the UK sharia law CAN be brought in if enough vote for it and already we can NOT force a woman to uncover her face in public offices or teaching in schools if she says her religion forbids it. Which is of course a lie, no religion forbids it, some men interpret it for themselves and their own wishes. France does not allow it, thank goodness.

[Deleted]

Sept 11, 2013 7:08:30 GMT -1 bormes said:

Yes I do not wish to be governed by Westminster at all.
However you have managed to give an example of one young man playing football and I do not think he is Islamic.
The hate preachers of Islam ARE the problem and it is the YOUNG ones you are talking about that ARE the problem, they are in some cases fourth generation and many, thousands of them are training and fighting in Islamic conflicts all over the world, Islam is completely driven to have Islam as the world religion and count the number of countries who are at war or internal conflict with Islam right now. Is that a coincidence?
Our UK is OVERCROWDED, the world is overcrowded.
Incidentally sharia law is already being used in marital disputes in England in five major cities.
In a "democracy" UK if enough people vote to change something, the law, as has already been done in the UK as Scotland as part of the Act of Union had to have it's own legal system, that has now been over rided by the UK Supreme Court being now the highest in the land thereby making a mockery of the Scottish system. That means in the democracy of the UK sharia law CAN be brought in if enough vote for it and already we can NOT force a woman to uncover her face in public offices or teaching in schools if she says her religion forbids it. Which is of course a lie, no religion forbids it, some men interpret it for themselves and their own wishes. France does not allow it, thank goodness.

No, the boy I mentioned isn't Islamic. But if you read the article he talks about his religion, his church. He wasn't dissuaded from following whatever religion he chose here in Scotland. Everyone should shirley have the freedom to choose (or not choose) to follow a religion?

I don't believe Islam is really that much different to other fundamentalist religions such as Christianity, Roman Catholicism, Brethren, Mormons, whatever, all of whom sincerely believe it's THEIR WAY or the HIGHWAY and who's mission is to convert.

As for Sharia, I truly believe the only recourse we can offer is to educate young men and women to think for themselves and make informed decisions.

And re burka/hijab: OK this is gonna be contentious so bear with me.
I have to stop myself from confronting my 'sisters' as I go about everyday life. I want to shake them, tell them to remove these shackles of 'ownership' and stand up for themselves. Oh yes.

But........and just but.....(and I expect pelters for this) women who dress this way don't have to put up with constant, daily, grinding abuse by men who see fit to voice their comment on their 'fitness', their body, their facial features, the whole gamut; which is essentially just another type of 'ownership'.

We like to believe in the West that we're sophisticated and civilised. But increasingly I'm not so sure about that.

[bormes]

Yes Rolo, fundamentalists of any type are dangerous and should not be allowed to inflame people.
However it is a long, long time since we have had the hatred in the numbers that abound in England, it makes our wee sectarian mob in the Weston Scotland look like grains of sand. The people I am talking about are fighting all over the world and ruthlessly executing men women and children in the name of their religion.
In fairness I can not say about how some women have been treated. In the UK, however I have asked some whom I do know and they do not seem to think they have had "daily" comments, in fact I am told that young women nowadays will not tolerate (rightly) the sort of abuse you describe. I can also say with fair accuracy having lived on our farm in a local village that women in that village were not put upon in the way you mention. I am not denying it does not happen, however mentioning it when I am discussing a genuine problem in the UK is the same old chestnut about how many nutters we have, well yes wo do have plenty but WHY import even more we do NO BACKGROUND CHECKS. NO HEALTH CHECKS.
We are overcrowded, there are too many people here trying to force change for their OWN reasons.