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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2013 20:06:07 GMT -1
I have some studious young people around the tat table tonight complete with 3 grand's worth of technology (macs and Ipads, cables, chargers, not a book or a pencil in sight ;D...) Anyways, Earth Sciences undergrad ponders the question (while awaiting his home-cooked spag bol (by moi, after a 12 hour shift...  ) "Is Buckfast a mineral?" Moi: No. Him: Why not? Moi: Because it's a man-made liquid? Him (checks lecture notes); Correct! Guess what, I didn't 'learn' that at uni...  and had to laugh at the SOH of the lecturer who'd set the question. More alarmingly, the wean reports there have been complaints from many classmates about last week's Hons Psych paper, in which the students were asked to expand upon the central tenets of Psychology theory to date. Official complaints ranged from: "This question was confusing" to "Tenets is not a commonly used word" to "The word tenets has never been used in recent past papers" to "Using the word 'tenets' is not friendly to foreign students" I'm sorry but I fell about laughing.. And advised wean that, just possibly, a wee bit of extra testing was going on there to sort the parrot-style regurgitation of info (as found in private school drilling in How To Pass Exams) and those who had a wider grasp of vocabulary and indeed, the ability to grasp by DEDUCTION what they were being asked to do. I doubt much has really changed since I was at Glasgow Uni in the 70s though. I realised then that even the so-called intelligent could actually be remarkably dumb a lot of the time. ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by notanimby on Dec 16, 2013 21:28:30 GMT -1
Was it not meant to be tennants.....................  It's not just a uk thing either, I deal with Indian IT folks everyday, technically they know the theory very well................ But ask them to think for themselves, apply logic and thought to an issue and their stumped. If its not in the written process blah blah blah. We have serious issue on a project I'm working on to try and recover it ( failing miserably) anyways I ran a workshop to try and find a solution, I asked a couple of he Indian techies to think about a way of solving it by using certain parameters, simple lateral thinking, nothing was off limits. After a day they had achieved nothing because everything involved was out side standards and official processes, so I told hem to think for themselves and come up with anything that would work, no matter how it broke the company rules. After a day nothing as it didn't involve current standards and processes So rather pissed off by this time I said OK then you fix it, how do we fix it - we would still be sitting waiting on an answer now, three weeks later if we hadn't went to uk guys who were a wee bit more realistic and pragmatic They have came up with a solution, Indian guys say that isn't an allowed solution, they can't get to grips with the idea that standards can be changed and they are allowed to think - they're a waste of space unless doing Mickey Mouse repetitive tasks that don't need thought |
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Post by bormes on Dec 16, 2013 22:13:46 GMT -1
Ooohhhhhhhhh,,,,, you wee racist you!!!!!!! Hehehehe..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2013 22:38:28 GMT -1
Ooohhhhhhhhh,,,,, you wee racist you!!!!!!! Hehehehe.. Aye right, he so is. ;D Not. Nota gets exactly what I'm saying. As do you Bormes, and so will Oz when he finally gets around to joining in....(too sunny in the Aus springtime, he's out getting the barbie ready, likely... ) This mental globalisation is training people to be drones, to think like computers, all logic and processes-- and no lateral thinking. Our kids are becoming spoon fed. They're FRIGHTENED to challenge so-called 'authority' for fear they'll be penalised. It's time we used technology to OUR advantage and not to the advantage of the multi billionaires who are probably all psychopaths anyway. WTF happened to the human spirit, are we ALL broken? I think not.  |
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Post by ozneil on Dec 16, 2013 23:57:36 GMT -1
Know exactly what Nota means
1) One of our universities ... no name no pack drill was threatened with having their acreditation to our Professional body removed (our Institute qualifications are recognised and accepted world wide) unless they lifted their game. Much wailing and gnashing of from Uni sdaying in effect if they lifted the standards as we demanded the rate of passes would fall and they would get less Asian students paying full fees. Our response TOUGH!!
I would never employ one of their graduates as Nota says all by the book which is out of date anyway. Having said that I was desperate for staff and interviewed on of their near graduates( he had to do 6 months approved practical to graduate A Chinese guy, I asked what he actually knew about building . He said "nothing but my degree shows Im a quick learner" He got the job and later became a partner and one of my mates. Proof in pudding etc
2.) I always employed 2 cadets at a time over a 6 year training period. Most kids realised it being a superior training to full time Uni so I always had a good choice. Part of the deal being we supplied all text books and in return their assignments became our property. Because of the laziness of Uni lecturers they gave out same assignments year after year . Our cadets always seemed to get high marks.
3.) There was a guy from another continent who was on his better days f*cking useless. The first firm to employ him fired him "quick smart" and he promptly went to race relations board yelling racism. . The firm had the hell of a lot of trouble over that. The long and the short being it went round the industry like lightning and no one would employ him. God knows where he is now Prob hied bummer in some govt department in B##### land
PS its not the standard of kids that has dropped. Its the standard of teaching and the lowering on entry requirements to Universities so as not to disadvantage the lower socio-economic groups and the thickies.
I was asked to lecture ant one of the Unis on a part time basis. There is no way I would recommend that Uni to anyone coz if they asked ME to lecture they gorra be desperate.
PPS before the more socially aware amongst us start having a fit of righteousness about the socio-economic challenged kids They do less well at school than others......... fact of life not a political statement. Let teachers teach basics at a more advance level rather than pandering to the loweest common denominator may help. Bring back streamed education would help According to Mrs Oz you used to have Junior Secondary (leave year 3 ) Senior Secondary (leave year 5). It did not force kids beyond their capabilities or dumb down bright kids to level of the more IQ challenged
Ok will put soap box away
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 1:45:26 GMT -1
The thing that really bothers me is that we're stifling creativity and lateral thought. You're right, Oz, it's not any lack in the kids' inherent ability, it's how it's all being dumbed down. Kids today seem to me to be terrified of being 'different' and thinking for themselves. And there's always capitalist bastards relying on that fact. Anyone that dares raise their head over the parapet is ridiculed to the point of outright bullying and made to feel like they don't 'belong'. The reason for that is that money's being made by so many via globalisation and what is ostensibly 'the norm'. Every day in life I go past the Uni and see kids who should be carefree and creative but feel they're bound by some global 'norm' ---whether in thought or dress or personal style. Any sense of individuality now seems to be a crime. And it makes me feel uber sad. And if I'm honest, I HATE what the Western world has become. We're losing ALL our values to those for whom the dollar counts most. <  yes > |
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Post by ozneil on Dec 17, 2013 2:05:00 GMT -1
I told my cadets to agree with their lecturers and follow instructions, not to argue and that we would train them properly. Get their degree and tell people who trained them and they would get ahead. The brighter ones did. I had one kid who failed his uni entrance which I thought was wrong. I pulled strings and he got in to uni followed our instructions and got second class honours Bsc. We thought he was good so we offered him $40,000 on grad. That was way above average. Some bastard of a company, who didnt train people, offered him $60,000 .. He came to me and told me about it and said although he didnt want to leave he couldnt knock offer back. I told him to grab it and if and when he got to a position of giving out work remember us. (He did..... bread on waters etc) The bastard firm did give us a back handed compliment saying if he had been trained by us he would be at least competent. My partner wanted to go and practice unspeakable horrors on that firm but C'est La vie. Some very good people including & in particular my boss in Scotland spent a lot of time training me so I feel I have to do same thing. Soap box being broken up for firewood!!!! |
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Post by ozneil on Dec 18, 2013 22:28:59 GMT -1
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 22:41:26 GMT -1
Yeah, it doesn't matter if they're right or wrong.
GOOD ON THEM for caring enough to make everyone in their class THINK.
IMO the very best teachers/lecturers don't shrink from challenges.
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and had to laugh at the SOH of the lecturer who'd set the question.
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