Red Road reversal

[Deleted]

So..Glasgow City Council just did a U-turn on the idea of incorporating a massive demolition into the Commonwealth opening ceremony.

Sense prevails (although you imagine the huge opposition might just have had something to do with that...)
(And the official line is safety and security concerns..aye, right hahaha!)

It was a crass, insensitive and downright TERRIBLE idea in the first place, imv.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-27009806

[bormes]

What do we expect from Bernadette?
Her husband was as crass as her.

[notanimby]

Whoever thought this ad idea up needs a boot n the bawz

Blowing things up for such an event is sheer stupidity, for one its not an exact science safety or the technical wise. So blowing up five live on telly for billions to gawk at is mental

[Deleted]

Well it's a factor yes, Nota but not the reason I personally signed the petition against it.

Red Road was built in the 60s to provide housing for those affected by the slum cl.earances in the Gorbals particularly.

We may look back on it now as being shortsighted, parking people in high rises with no local shops or amenities but thousands of people grew up there nevertheless.

To blow up their former homes as entertainment just seems disrespectful to me.

Also, what SENSE would it make to those watching all over the world? They don't know the history of Glasgow!

Another factor that I thought crass was that all but one block was to be ceremoniously demolished.
That one block remains in commission for asylum-seekers. It's tantamount to saying we need to get shot of bad housing sharpish--yet it's still good enough for some to live in?

Put simply, I'm glad the decision's been reversed but it does FECK ALL to reassure me of the nature of Glasgow City Council's involvement in just about ANY aspect of civic life. That they even considered it in the first place tells you something of the mentality of the ruling Labour group.

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2014 19:13:16 GMT -1 bormes said:

What do we expect from Bernadette?
Her husband was as crass as her.

Lady McConnell do you mean, not that she uses that title?

She's presided over some rather good things over the years but it's pretty obvious to me in the last few she's serving out her time now.

It'd be a shame to taint her with the idiocy of the person she's married to, imv.

[ozneil]

Red Road was also built to provide a very much needed boost to the Scottish Steel Industry. We knew at the time they were not economical. It was a political decision.

The buildings were designed for a 90 year life with flexibility to alter internal layouts as deemed necessary for future requirements.

The Architect was Sam Bunton, the steelwork was done by Fleming Brothers Glasgow and Redpath Brown Edinburgh. The project management was done by Glasgow Corporation.

Yours truly worked on it but never saw it completed.

[Deleted]

Can I ask, Oz, did you think it a good idea at the time? Not just from a building point of view of course but from a community one. I think the intention was that peoples' living standards would rise, although I'm not altogether sure that WAS the actual result, given the lack of amenities that we see around SO many highrises in Glasgow and elsewhere.

I think they're being pulled down for reasons other than that the actual fabric of the buildings is beyond repair.

[ozneil]

Apr 13, 2014 21:14:46 GMT -1 @rolo said:

Can I ask, Oz, did you think it a good idea at the time? Not just from a building point of view of course but from a community one. I think the intention was that peoples' living standards would rise, although I'm not altogether sure that WAS the actual result, given the lack of amenities that we see around SO many highrises in Glasgow and elsewhere.

I think they're being pulled down for reasons other than that the actual fabric of the buildings is beyond repair.

I didnt think about it. Ir certainly raised the living standards. It was planned in early 60s remember. Lots of tenants didnt have inside plumbing before they moved in. It meant they could stay handy to their work in higher standard housing NB loco was just down road and lots more heavy industry on door step with good public transport. High rises were usually build adjacent to centres of industry. to house the workers.

Remember at that time Glasgow had a population in excess of 1mill.

The alternative was sprawling housing schemes Castlemilk and others whose names I cant remember miles from work and amenities like the Locarno without anything to do and going into city was a bind with poor public transport.

The planners at that time were "high -rise" mad throughout Europe not just Glasgow... they foresaw "vertical-villages". within coo-eee of the City centre and work. Cars were not then generally owned by the populace,

In Glasgow no one saw the rapid demise of heavy industry which really buggered up society..whether you can blame High-rises for change in society or not is a moot point.

I dont know I just build the bloody things

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2014 23:14:34 GMT -1 ozneil said:

I didnt think about it. Ir certainly raised the living standards. It was planned in early 60s remember. Lots of tenants didnt have inside plumbing before they moved in. It meant they could stay handy to their work in higher standard housing NB loco was just down road and lots more heavy industry on door step with good public transport. High rises were usually build adjacent to centres of industry. to house the workers.

Remember at that time Glasgow had a population in excess of 1mill.

The alternative was sprawling housing schemes Castlemilk and others whose names I cant remember miles from work and amenities like the Locarno without anything to do and going into city was a bind with poor public transport.

The planners at that time were "high -rise" mad throughout Europe not just Glasgow... they foresaw "vertical-villages". within coo-eee of the City centre and work. Cars were not then generally owned by the populace,

In Glasgow no one saw the rapid demise of heavy industry which really buggered up society..whether you can blame High-rises for change in society or not is a moot point.

I dont know I just build the bloody things

I lived in Clydebank then Knightswood as a child and fortunately both council houses had inside plumbing. But I do recall the fucking misery of the outside toilet at my piano teacher's in Anniesland in the mid-60s.

It's certainly true that the highrises were built near centres of industry viz the many in Clydebank, Yoker and Scotstoun near the shipyards. And also Red Road near St Rollox works in Springburn as you say.

I'm not at all sure building high rises is so wrong. But what I would say is that in Glasgow it's been got a bit wrong in that there weren't built in shopping and leisure facilities.


And yeah, high rises are common throughout Europe, especially in Spanish urban areas.

We had this thing back in the 60s where people were decanted from areas that SO needed demolished into either high rises in the city or out to the New Towns like East Kilbride and Cumbernauld.

I think the whole idea of blowing up these blocks for entertainment value was misguided from Day One.

I do have another question. We have people homeless on the streets of Glasgow just like every other city in the world. Why is it that it's OK to blow up serviceable buildings while people in need could be living there?

[ozneil]

Some of these old tenements were dreadful even when I was there.

I had to inspect a block in East End, Springfield?? Road.

A publlcan om ground floor had decided to extend his bar by knocking down a couple of walls. Like all publicans, or mibbe just weejies, he tried to do it on the che*p and got a couple of his regulars, builders labourers, to do the job . They measured up carefully to make sure they wouldnt knock down the wrong wall. They did!! They knocked a whacking great hole in the main load bearing wall and carefully avoided the partition walls.

It lasted about a couple of months then it collapsed in dead of night. By the grace of god it only dropped about 6" then jammed..

We were asked to inspect . My first visit to a mid? 19th century slum tenement block, Each flat had a cast Iron sink with a cold tap and a coal fired range. There was 1 WC on each half landing which served up to 8 families. The whole place stank of rot and cat piss. All families had been evacuated pronto in middle of night and hadnt been allowed back in till temporary beamsand acrow props were put in to hold it up.

It was subsequently demolished. Often wondered who paid for it

[notanimby]

Apr 13, 2014 23:58:30 GMT -1 @rolo said:

Apr 13, 2014 23:14:34 GMT -1 ozneil said:

I didnt think about it. Ir certainly raised the living standards. It was planned in early 60s remember. Lots of tenants didnt have inside plumbing before they moved in. It meant they could stay handy to their work in higher standard housing NB loco was just down road and lots more heavy industry on door step with good public transport. High rises were usually build adjacent to centres of industry. to house the workers.

Remember at that time Glasgow had a population in excess of 1mill.

The alternative was sprawling housing schemes Castlemilk and others whose names I cant remember miles from work and amenities like the Locarno without anything to do and going into city was a bind with poor public transport.

The planners at that time were "high -rise" mad throughout Europe not just Glasgow... they foresaw "vertical-villages". within coo-eee of the City centre and work. Cars were not then generally owned by the populace,

In Glasgow no one saw the rapid demise of heavy industry which really buggered up society..whether you can blame High-rises for change in society or not is a moot point.

I dont know I just build the bloody things

I lived in Clydebank then Knightswood as a child and fortunately both council houses had inside plumbing. But I do recall the fucking misery of the outside toilet at my piano teacher's in Anniesland in the mid-60s.

It's certainly true that the highrises were built near centres of industry viz the many in Clydebank, Yoker and Scotstoun near the shipyards. And also Red Road near St Rollox works in Springburn as you say.

I'm not at all sure building high rises is so wrong. But what I would say is that in Glasgow it's been got a bit wrong in that there weren't built in shopping and leisure facilities.


And yeah, high rises are common throughout Europe, especially in Spanish urban areas.

We had this thing back in the 60s where people were decanted from areas that SO needed demolished into either high rises in the city or out to the New Towns like East Kilbride and Cumbernauld.

I think the whole idea of blowing up these blocks for entertainment value was misguided from Day One.

I do have another question. We have people homeless on the streets of Glasgow just like every other city in the world. Why is it that it's OK to blow up serviceable buildings while people in need could be living there?

My grandfather was involved in the commissioning of Port Glasgow's 3 high flats. they were built in mid to late 1960s

They are 15 floors high ( was to be 16 but that's another storey

Anyways from the outset they were of a very high quality and rented to folk who were pensioners or had some disability, there were no children allowed either, children under 10 were not alowed to stay overnight as guests either.

Each block had its own large community room and caretaker

In the 40+ years they have beeen up there has always been years long waiting list for a flat there - still the same criteria and the residents don't entertain any nonsense or anti-social behaviour in the slightest. There have been new windaes fitted and new cladding done but structurally they are indeed sound.

Inverclyde Coonsil took tehm over from teh auld Port Corporation under re-organisation in the seventies and surprisingly have managed to keep them up to scratch

Greenock ( boo hiss jeer) councils high flats unfortunately have not been so lucky - they let ehm to anyone and most have now beeen demolished - there a few left and they are now trying to keep them designated for pensioners and special needs but without any money investment.

Gourock has oen high flat - its a similar setup to Port Glasgow with a queue years long for a flat there

[Deleted]

Same with many blocks here in Glasgow too Nota, including the one our late Aunt Jean lived in at Blairdardie till her sudden death last August.

Very high standards of maintenance and of neighbourly behaviour with caretakers on hand.

I also had friends who lived in the extremely high blocks at Scotstoun in the 70s. They were kept pristine inside and out but yes, the difference between the latter two and Red Road was simply down to local amenities, cos they were slap bang in the middle of communities, not stuck out on their own with no local infrastructure.

I do think, Oz, the word tenement can be misinterpreted though? Yes in the very worst areas where there was overcrowding and shared plumbing then it's hardly the residents' fault that they were bloody awful places to live.

All over Glasgow we have perfectly serviceable tenement buildings from late Victorian days. The structure is solid, being sandstone (blonde or red) and with a bit of judicious maintenance they'll serve us well for another half century at least.

I'd add, Oz, it's not in any way here considered BAD to live in a tenement. It's but a description of a type of building, not a moral judgement

[ozneil]

Gees You mob are quick to take umbrage

I know all that. The ones I am talking about were shocking as were a lot of the slum dwellings that were demolished in the 60s and replaced by the high rises. They were neglected and run down. They have been shoddily built in first place mostly round about the early to mid 1800s to accommodate the influx of workers for Glasgow's heavy industries. Most of the high rises were built to replace these slums in same areas. It was not the tenants fault that they had to live there, no alternative, though not all tenants were angels.

Good class tenements in Kelvinsaide, Pollockshields etc were a totally different kettle of fish generally built in latter part of 18th century up to start of WW1 They were very well built and aimed at a much higher market. The standard of building reflected this.

The only really really high class ones I was in were at Charing Cross a magnificent building.

The red sandstone tenements were built of Annan ? sandstone from the borders which is a harder stone than the local blonde "Giffnock" stone. which came from as far afield as Greenock. and weathered better than the local stone. The slum tenements were built on an inferior local stone. If you look round Glasgow you will see that the red sand stone buildings require less maintenance than the blonde ones. Both stones if properly quarried and laid will last for ever

My most depressing experience in Scotland was in Castlemilk. I was out on a site inspecting something or other. For some reason I was only person on the site. I was conscious of someone watching me then I noticed it was a lady watching me from her house. I couldnt blame her a handsome Antipodean Gentleman would not be normal there. I moved round the site doing my work when she appeared behind me. She offered me certain sexual favours for 10/- as she needed cash "to buy food for the weans". She was so bloody nervous and upset it was obviously genuine, Poor lady . Maybe I was a mug but I gave her a quid. I didnt accept her offer. She was so grateful. I told guys in office about it and was told it was not unusual, hubbies pissing a week's wages against the wall on a Friday night and as they were working no welfare.

So endth the first lesson