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Post by peony on Jul 20, 2014 6:44:06 GMT -1
It seems to me to be all posturing. The politicians, those who did the shooting, etc. The only real ones are the dead and those who loved them.
AND I am fuckin' sick of the news selling tragedy as if it is entertainment. Pictures of persons and possessions being looted, bodies in the sun, you name it.
The news used just to be the facts. Now it's just some sort of horrible, sickening entertainment.
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Post by bormes on Jul 20, 2014 9:05:30 GMT -1
Correct P
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 18:36:08 GMT -1
It seems to me to be all posturing. The politicians, those who did the shooting, etc. The only real ones are the dead and those who loved them. AND I am fuckin' sick of the news selling tragedy as if it is entertainment. Pictures of persons and possessions being looted, bodies in the sun, you name it. The news just to be the facts. Now it's just some sort of horrible, sickening entertainment. Indeed, Peony, indeed. You'll know already I have strong views on media intrusion. Every formal media outlet is dictated by some *political bias* or another. Straight, balanced and unbiased reportage is a thing of the past. Now we are mercilessly manipulated and you need dogged patience to uncover the truth about ANY situation. In Schiphol today, people leaving and arriving queued up in their hundreds to sign the book of condolence and leave floral tributes to those lost, and their families. I've flown via Schiphol many a time in the last 30 years but on recent visit a couple of weeks ago, it's an ever-huger, bustling hub for both Dutch domestic and international flights. So huge, it's confusing finding your way around and the distances between gates are vast. In a place that has such a sense of urgency, that people stopped and took time to pay their respects just shows their inherent humanity. However this all pales into insignificance. In my opinion, we have a job to do, as citizens of the world, and that is to uncover who was behind this appalling crime and bring them to *some kind* of justice. And personally I won't stop flying anytime soon. Two fingers up at those who'd use innocent people as cannon fodder. They can't get us all, f*ckers that they are.
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Post by ozneil on Jul 21, 2014 1:51:45 GMT -1
Part of Tony Abbott's press conference
After speaking to the relevant World leaders including Obama & Cameron:-
He also offered full consular support to the families of the 8 Australian residents who were not citizens.
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Post by bormes on Jul 21, 2014 8:41:46 GMT -1
The hypocrisy from Obama and Cameron is mind blowing. Both nations supplied arms and special forces to train "terrorists" in the eyes of the Russians, in Afghanistan and ALL the major powers do it ALL the time. French missiles against us in the Falklands, Swiss weapons sold to Sukarno by the US When we were fighting him!! Angola, well that is another story and if you even open the lid on the Nigerian Biafran genocide, oops sorry, war, it is one of the biggest stinks around the UK should hang our head in shame!! That for Nigerian oil!! These observations which I have actually seen are another huge reason Scotland should return to running herself by ourselves. We can trade and trade with NO ARMS INDUSTRY Get everyone drunk on our whisky and forget fighting!!
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Post by notanimby on Jul 21, 2014 10:12:09 GMT -1
I've been doing some reading up on the USS Vincennes epsiode
The USA paid out @$60 million pounds in compensation
The USS Vincennes was ILLEGALLY in Iranian waters at the time
The USA admitted that they had lied when they said the airliner had its transponder turned off
The USA admitted they lied when they said they hadn't tracked it and that its trajectory was on gaining height
They have never apologised for this incident, ( although in 1996 they did express regret for the lives lost) in fact no one has ever been punished, the exact opposite in fact
George H. W. Bush, the vice president of the United States at the time commented on the incident during a presidential campaign function (2 Aug 1988): "I will never apologize for the United States — I don't care what the facts are... I'm not an apologize-for-America kind of guy.
And the pricks have the audacity to criticise Putin
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Post by ozneil on Jul 21, 2014 11:19:44 GMT -1
I suggest you delete the above post shows complete lack of sensitivity and compassion.
We just arent interested in your political point scoring at this time.
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Post by notanimby on Jul 21, 2014 12:34:22 GMT -1
I suggest you delete the above post shows complete lack of sensitivity and compassion. We just arent interested in your political point scoring at this time. Suggestion noted and filed apprpriately It's not a political point I'm making, just showing up rank hypocrisy. Perhaps in your eyes there is s difference in who's murdered and by whom- not in mine. You may or may not have had friends or family murdered or injured by acts of terror, but I have - platitudes and hypocrisy from any side are complete shite - it's easy to spot the people who actually mean what they say at such times - I'm struggling to see any sincerity like that currently
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 19:49:51 GMT -1
I suggest you delete the above post shows complete lack of sensitivity and compassion. We just arent interested in your political point scoring at this time. With respect, Oz, I'm not sure I agree with your point. We frequently discuss here how lessons need to be learned from the past. And there is evidence that Lockerbie was a retaliation for the USS Vincennes incident and nothing whatsoever to do with Libya. NO justice was meted out in terms of the Vincennes and NO justice was meted out in terms of Lockerbie. It is only right, surely, that we show up the hypocrisy of-- and demand better of-- our governments in the case of this latest crime. Again with respect, Tony Abbott appears to be a man of principle but Australia's influence on world politics is probably of little or no concern whatsoever to the psychopaths in power in the UK and the US. If you find significant quantities of oil though, watch THAT change pronto!
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Post by ozneil on Jul 21, 2014 19:59:51 GMT -1
Rolo 2 wrongs dont make a right.
This was still an act of barbarism no matter what went before.
We are aware our country is minor player on world stage, always has been, but this should/will not frighten us into silence.
btw We have oodles and oodles of oil and gas as well as other minerals.
Hell we even export coal to UK from time to time.
not appropriate here
I must admit I am unpleasantly surprised by the attitude in this forum bringing in extraneous matter which to my mind seeks to lessen the impact of this deliberate vile act. (others have done it before syndrome )
I am very angry
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 20:51:37 GMT -1
Rolo 2 wrongs dont make a right. This was still an act of barbarism no matter what went before. We are aware our country is minor player on world stage, always has been, but this should/will not frighten us into silence. btw We have oodles and oodles of oil and gas as well as other minerals. Hell we even export coal to UK from time to time.not appropriate here I must admit I am unpleasantly surprised by the attitude in this forum bringing in extraneous matter which to my mind seeks to lessen the impact of this deliberate vile act. (others have done it before syndrome ) I am very angry We are ALL angry, Oz, you don't have a monopoly on that. What has happened in Ukraine is not an isolated incident. By discussing the topic of the shooting down of passenger jets, one would hope to bring some context to the whole cause and effect issue that shapes what happens next. All actions have consequences, do they not? Let's not fall out over this, we're better than that I think everyone here is only too horribly aware of the impact of this latest outrage. We're on the same page and all of us likely thinking when such outrages happen, there but for the grace.......go I, you, our families and friends.
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Post by ozneil on Jul 22, 2014 0:07:17 GMT -1
I was about to respond but I think I had better not.
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Post by bormes on Jul 22, 2014 6:39:34 GMT -1
Oz, Please do not judge your friends on here too harshly. Myself and others, I think everyone would agree, wish for peace, above all else? Not in anyway meaning to be offensive, I apologise to anyone on here if I have been offensive, I do rant on about things I dislike, however at the end of the day, we are all Jock Tamsons bairns, the problem is with that, just like a family, we canny get on all the time.
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Post by ozneil on Jul 22, 2014 8:03:25 GMT -1
Oz, Please do not judge your friends on here too harshly. Myself and others, I think everyone would agree, wish for peace, above all else? Not in anyway meaning to be offensive, I apologise to anyone on here if I have been offensive, I do rant on about things I dislike, however at the end of the day, we are all Jock Tamsons bairns, the problem is with that, just like a family, we canny get on all the time. As far as I am concerned Bormes you nor anyone else has any reason whatsoever to apologise to me. Im still alive! Everytime I see the pic of that little brown monkey, obviously knitted with love and care and obviously a treasured toy of a little kid I get so....... I had better not go on. My opinion and what I think of some of the posts here matters only to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 23:36:58 GMT -1
OZ. It is difficult to speak dispassionately about all the hideous crimes visited on man by man. Any right-thinking person with the slightest jot of humanity feels the grief and the outrage and the sadness and the compassion: nobody here is any different.
But...all I am saying is that it's not a crime to discuss the bigger picture, the politics that colour such events and to educate ourselves re the history-- because these things rarely happen in isolation.
I suppose what I'm saying is that many people feel that sometimes grave and terrible things are done in our name by our governments. Or are '*allowed* to be done...I speak from a Western perspective, of course.
In railing against these terrible politics, nobody but nobody of sane mind blames the ordinary citizens of any country. They/we are all the same, just wishing for peace and to live our lives free of danger and terror.
If we just stick our fingers in our ears and go LA LA LA, then we ourselves *allow* crazy people to dictate.
The crazies of this world DEPEND on the apathy of the majority. So while we all, ALL, shed a tear for victims of atrocities, it's RIGHT that we inform ourselves and make our governments accountable.
A pipe dream, perhaps, but one worth having?
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