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Post by bormes on Dec 16, 2014 19:20:49 GMT -1
Unfortunately too many of theses sub humans have too many supporters and then we have the apologists for them and the PC twunts joining in being offended on other peoplle's behalf!
So sorry for the poor souls families in Sydney and the poor families after the horror in Pakistan!!
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Post by ozneil on Dec 16, 2014 19:32:40 GMT -1
No Bormes. They were scared he had a bomb in his back pack, as claimed and which he never took off. He also claimed to have planted 4 bombs in the vicinity. The cops went in on the first shot got the people out then sent in a robot and a guy in bomb gear to check out his back pack. Thankfully there wasnt a bomb. These guys, the cops, went in knowing they could be blown up but went in anyway to get the people out. Very brave men We have apologists for them even now saying if we had made them more welcome etc etc this wouldnt have happened. It may bring the more moderate muslims to their senses and make them realise they have to conform but I doubt it The outpouring of support for the families and the cops is amazing |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 19:32:53 GMT -1
I think we just cross-posted there, Bormes. Kind of echoing each other's thoughts on the incidents I think?
We don't know the detail of the Sydney Polis decisions, as you rightly say, information's scant just now--- but of course there are going to be questions over this guy and how he got himself armed..at the very least.
But ultimately, and ALWAYS, responsibility must lie with those prepared to terrorise and kill innocent people.
About the truly horrific murders of tiny children in Pakistan today: an organised attack in the name of 'faith', unlike the various school shootings in Europe and the West that have almost always been down to 'loners'.
It's almost like the extremists are trying to test our resolve, like if they commit worse and worse crimes, they will succeed and we'll kowtow to their way of thinking in the end.
Where are we going with this? Is negotiation the only constructive way forward...? Pointless deaths over the last century in Northern Ireland and we have an uneasy peace now.
What is it, survival of the fittest/most mental/most armed now?
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Post by ozneil on Dec 16, 2014 20:16:47 GMT -1
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Post by notanimby on Dec 16, 2014 21:14:13 GMT -1
replies First WOOPS I meant Hijab, got mixed with "h" & "J" next to each other on key board. Cabs in Sydney in mid afternoon are as scarce as hens' teeth , shift change, and as a result cab sharing, though illegal, is quite common the animal was Iranian a refugee given sanctuary here in 1996 because his life was in danger This is how he repaid out generosity. He wrote nasty letters to relatives of soldiers killed in Afghanistan, was implicated in the murder of his ex-wife and was charged with sexual assault. Cause of the PC weak bail laws (terrified of remanding an innocent , innocent till proved guilty etc) he was released on bail . He was on bail when he committed the atrocities. Others must have known his intent eg Where did he get gun? out gun laws for that type of weapon are tight. Another employee, an Asian student, who was running late swears he saw 3 of them at the entry to cafe , one went in and 2 walked away by time he got there he saw what was hapening. Pakistan outrage is dreadful these people arent human. We can only hope that the outrage the people feels removes any vestage of help for the Taliban This guy was a complete psycho, he would have been one whatever his religion, just like jim jones, David koresh or rasputin |
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Post by bormes on Dec 16, 2014 21:14:50 GMT -1
I'm cynical about what has been put out!!
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Post by ozneil on Dec 16, 2014 22:02:47 GMT -1
I'm cynical about what has been put out!! We will have to wait on Enquiry ... This isnt UK we have a different system of command. Dont denigrate or second guess a system or situation you know nothing about from 10,000 miles away. Sole decision rested with the commander on the ground. The guy who can see is in command no one else. In this case the cop in channel 7 studio. As soon as shots were fired he gave order to go in. It took seconds. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 22:38:47 GMT -1
This guy was a complete psycho, he would have been one whatever his religion, just like jim jones, David koresh or rasputin Completely agree, Nota. And why it's so damaging that the first images the world saw were that of an Islam flag. Not in their name, I imagine so many are saying today-- and they'd be right. Guy's not the full shilling, clearly. It happens. Decisions taken by OZ police will have been taken according to the circumstances they found themselves in and they'll have wanted to minimise casualties and tried to get him to disarm, I'm sure. Whereas there's no doubt at all that the awful events in Pakistan today were down to organised, brutal factions. Somebody's sons, persuaded into suicide attacks, led to believe it was their moment of glory. And all because one god's bigger than another god. Apparently. If it wasn't so FUCKING TRAGIC, it'd be hilarious. |
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Post by bormes on Dec 17, 2014 10:29:29 GMT -1
Not judging from far away Oz, you are quite correct about the person in charge on the ground no matter where it is.
It comes down to two choices, either try to negotiate until hand over or negotiate until the perpetrator does something over the line drawn.
All I am suggesting from what is in the public domain is that there WERE a number of opportunities to have taken him out.
We will perhaps be told after some de brief why that did not happen?
If it was the UK and someone makes a WRONG CALL, like in the Menendez case, the person in charge was moved sideways, given a promotion as though she had done a good job!!
I suspect the Oz people who look into this will not be like the UK and if mistakes were made, then they WILL admit this or at least learn from it?
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Post by ozneil on Dec 17, 2014 19:01:40 GMT -1
details are coming out .
First facts from cops & hostages confirmed animal had a backpack with wires leading into it. Conclusion could have been a bomb.
Cops evacuated all people in office block above. They had to take them from first floor down a ladder at back as fire exit passed cafe. Cops were scared he might detonate it and that it may have had a dead man's switch on it. Initially they did not know for sure how many cretins, until first escapers' were in the cafe so they negotiated.
We have "experts" coming out the wood work. One said that the glass was toughened glass and may deflect bullet as well as sending shower of glass splinters into the hostages causing serious wounding MY knowledge glass would be 10 or 12 mm tempered glass (like car windows) and when smashed breaks into crystals like car windows. pics afterwards show that. Now question for Bormes is that expert right or is it bullshit?
Cretin threatened to shoot a hostage for every one that escaped (confirmed by hostages). When a large group escaped cretin shot manager (police & initial autopsy). That triggered rescue with 2 teams of 6. Still waiting cause of death of 2nd victim/ They but havent confirmed she was injured and died of a heart attack on way to hospital.
The bomb was an audio amplifier with wires attached. Still no sign of "accomplices" or who sold him gun,
There will be an enquiry and results shown but on face of it the police performed exceptionally well. In hind sight things could always have been done differently. They were scared of bomb and didnt know actual number of hostages They thought 50 to start with then revised it to 30. Elly Chen, the second girl out confirmed 17
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Post by bormes on Dec 17, 2014 19:47:21 GMT -1
Firstly Oz, he COULD have had a bomb, definately a likely scenario for the person in charge to think about.
Secondly, the order to take "the shot" if that was the decision of the person in charge, it would be two "shooters" and the first one fires a fraction in front of the second one.
This is so that the glass is out of the way and will not deflect the second shot.
A great possibility, not so much in a head on shot but at any angle, sideways or higher up.
Not really a great danger from the glass itself.
I totally understand the person on the ground in charge has to asses so many variables, all I was pointing out was that there were a number of times when he most certainly could have been taken out.
The person in charge will no doubt be de briefed and explain why it was not done and as Oz says, probably the fear of a bomb is the most likely.
However in recent times, Rigby in England as an example, for some reason these two scum were not slotted, they were injured instead!!
I seriously hope this is not a feature of this type of action to come around the world from the bampots who believe in their shite.They are certainly doing it in so many countries in the world and the Pakistani one being, like Beslam right up there as evil savagery as we can see.
Sub human fuckers and all their supporters too.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 17, 2014 19:47:51 GMT -1
General feeling seems to be that the blame rests with Immigration for accepting him as a refugee without proper vetting ... He was wanted in Iran for absconding with his clients money. He was a travel agent. He abandoned wife 1 and family 1 to escape secondly with state government for introducing silly bail laws he should never have been out on bail after being charged with accessory to murder and sexual assault... People are not blaming muslims holus bolus though they do say they some should have known and informed authorities , perhaps they will now.
General opinion is that "I'll ride with you" is a complete wank and a piece of self aggrandisement by the luvvie twitters It is said that ladies in hijabs are no more bothered than anyone else. This includes interviews with a number of muslim ladies interviewed in street
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Post by bormes on Dec 17, 2014 19:50:39 GMT -1
We have too many ( more than a hundred) in the UK who think like that too, apologist PC head up arse pricks.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 17, 2014 22:27:04 GMT -1
now some political genius, wont say which party but its rather coloured, is saying that the police used live ammunition JAYSUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by ozneil on Dec 17, 2014 23:27:08 GMT -1
a tad off thread.
A few months ago the Muslim Students Association at one of our universities sent out a lady in a Hijab to various parts of the city & suburbs together with a number of guys who would abuse her verbally and generally be nasty to her which they would film to gauge public reaction. I dont know what they were expecting but on every occasion, very quickly, someone, both male and female and of all races stepped in to defend the lady and tell the abuser to piss-off. In one case the "abuser" got thumped and got a bleeding nose. The thumper was most definitely an "Anglo" worker. The camera guys had to step in and persuade him it was a set-up before more damage was done.
I think that was probably the last episode
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