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Post by notanimby on Dec 18, 2014 17:57:24 GMT -1
a tad off thread. A few months ago the Muslim Students Association at one of our universities sent out a lady in a Hijab to various parts of the city & suburbs together with a number of guys who would abuse her verbally and generally be nasty to her which they would film to gauge public reaction. I dont know what they were expecting but on every occasion, very quickly, someone, both male and female and of all races stepped in to defend the lady and tell the abuser to piss-off. In one case the "abuser" got thumped and got a bleeding nose. The thumper was most definitely an "Anglo" worker. The camera guys had to step in and persuade him it was a set-up before more damage was done. I think that was probably the last episode Jihad shirley?
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Post by ozneil on Dec 18, 2014 19:06:28 GMT -1
More details. Cretin made one of the hostages try to get on to talk back radio but they rightly put it through to Police and redused to broadcast his rants. He did claim he had a bomb and that the "Brothers" had placed 2 other bombs in the city which they would detonate. None were found. Both the hostages were shot by the Cretin.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 23:51:24 GMT -1
General feeling seems to be that the blame rests with Immigration for accepting him as a refugee without proper vetting ... He was wanted in Iran for absconding with his clients money. He was a travel agent. He abandoned wife 1 and family 1 to escape secondly with state government for introducing silly bail laws he should never have been out on bail after being charged with accessory to murder and sexual assault... People are not blaming muslims holus bolus though they do say they some should have known and informed authorities , perhaps they will now. General opinion is that "I'll ride with you" is a complete wank and a piece of self aggrandisement by the luvvie twitters It is said that ladies in hijabs are no more bothered than anyone else. This includes interviews with a number of muslim ladies interviewed in street [/ No. The blame lies with the guy who's done this. You can't legislate for randoms such as he. As Nota said back there, just another mentally ill person. The Islam connections spurious and frankly irrelevant in this case, isn't it I think it IS valid to question how he got a gun though.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 19, 2014 0:07:31 GMT -1
You cannot separate Muslims out of it. ISIS is telling Muslims to kill non believers in the street and behead them. Nutters try to do it. The same type of nutter that goes to the ME to fight the holy war. They cant step back its their religious extremists that are preaching it. They are the people that must curb it.
Martin Place is THE centre of Sydney. Its no coincidence, he thought he was doing Allah's bidding but dont most fanatics? He was also de-ranged.
The muslims have refused to bury him and will have now to work like buggery to build up trust
The cops are trying to find who sold him gun. Apart from him not having a licence the gun itself was illegal being a shortened fire-arm.
The cops raided several Muslim houses last night.
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Post by notanimby on Dec 19, 2014 5:14:09 GMT -1
You cannot separate Muslims out of it. ISIS is telling Muslims to kill non believers in the street and behead them. Nutters try to do it. The same type of nutter that goes to the ME to fight the holy war. They cant step back its their religious extremists that are preaching it. They are the people that must curb it. Martin Place is THE centre of Sydney. Its no coincidence, he thought he was doing Allah's bidding but dont most fanatics? He was also de-ranged. The muslims have refused to bury him and will have now to work like buggery to build up trust The cops are trying to find who sold him gun. Apart from him not having a licence the gun itself was illegal being a shortened fire-arm. The cops raided several Muslim houses last night. think you can separate them...... its akin to saying that all catholics or all protestants were part and parcel of either side of the irish troubles - which even a cursory glance would show was untrue - for example, ireland's most famous freedom fighter/rebel - wolfe tone was a protestant Isis is only trying to get certain muslims to kill non-believers - they hate shi,ite moslems as much as, if not more than, anyone else
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Post by bormes on Dec 19, 2014 7:15:57 GMT -1
The shotgun can be shortened by anyone who has a saw for the butt and havksaw for the barrel. He probably did it himself. Regarding the license, this is an example of irrelevance. If a bad person wants a gun to use illegally, they will get or easily make one. If they have no gun, they can use much, much worse household things to make much, much more dangerous things. Personally, I am happy the nutters out there think the gun is what they want, as it does mean they are curtailed in the amout they can hurt or kill. I say that in regards to the numbers they could hurt or kill using other means.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 19, 2014 20:26:12 GMT -1
[think you can separate them...... its akin to saying that all catholics or all protestants were part and parcel of either side of the irish troubles - which even a cursory glance would show was untrue - for example, ireland's most famous freedom fighter/rebel - wolfe tone was a protestant Isis is only trying to get certain muslims to kill non-believers - they hate shi,ite moslems as much as, if not more than, anyone else You are certainly correct but most people dont differentiate they see the radicals spouting off and not being checked or refuted by the "moderates" at their various prayer halls and misques. Until these "moderates" start actively preaching against the radicals we , in both our countries, are going to get more impressionable, uneducated kids, and older, being indoctrinated by them and going off to war or worse performing atrocities at home . At the moment the radicals seem to be ignored by both Sunni & Shi'ite cletgy. Do they agree with them or are thet scared? Both out countries have now had examples of that.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 19, 2014 20:32:55 GMT -1
Here I can obtain a "long licence" dead easily .. a Shotty or a 22 by going to police station filling in a form and a quizz and providing I dont have a record I got a licence. A hunting rifle is harder have to do a course and get a letter from a property owner saying I can shoot over his land.
Hand gun licences are hard to get , must be member of a club though illegally they are easy to get.
A shortened fire arm they throw the book at you.. Saw in Cop museum a shortened 303 , no butt and a much shortened barrel... I would have hated to fire it
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 19:44:02 GMT -1
You are certainly correct but most people dont differentiate they see the radicals spouting off and not being checked or refuted by the "moderates" at their various prayer halls and misques. Until these "moderates" start actively preaching against the radicals we , in both our countries, are going to get more impressionable, uneducated kids, and older, being indoctrinated by them and going off to war or worse performing atrocities at home . At the moment the radicals seem to be ignored by both Sunni & Shi'ite cletgy. Do they agree with them or are thet scared? Both out countries have now had examples of that. I disagree, Oz. Muslim organisations here in the UKE are most definitely active in countering the more extreme in their ranks and working within their communities to do so. I'd be *really surprised* if that's not also the case in Aus. Let's just look for a second at 'indoctrination' of kids going off to wage war. Is it OK if a country's government sanctions it? If so, Western countries don't have a leg to stand on. That this Sydney perpetrator happened to be Muslim's neither here nor there. As Nota's pointed out, this is not an organised attack, it's a one-off, perpetrated by a loner as in so many other cases worldwide. The one thing they have in common is hearing voices, usually 'religious' ones, natch, who impel them to commit their crimes. I think it's cried schizophrenia, and well documented by forensic psychologists and profilers. That is one basic reason I believe gun licensing needs to be tightened up. Gun laws changed here after Dunblane as that perpetrator obtained his 'legally'. I do wonder though, if Sydney perpetrator would have gone for it anyway, sans gun, with any weapon available and his pretendy backpack bomb. Info we have now is he was a bad un, with a history of violence and a jail record.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 20, 2014 20:02:51 GMT -1
different countries and I made the mistake of equating them.
Still our people dont differentiate . He was a Muslim and thats what they see right or wrong. The muslim clerics have to convince the general public.
Its the Muslims of all the minority religions that wish change in the country in the eyes of the people. The other major religions dont. But as I say different countries and I shouldnt have applied circumstances here to UK & vice versa
Yes he was bad 'un & we slipped badly up vetting him
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 20:46:38 GMT -1
different countries and I made the mistake of equating them. Still our people dont differentiate . He was a Muslim and thats what they see right or wrong. The muslim clerics have to convince the general public. Its the Muslims of all the minority religions that wish change in the country in the eyes of the people. The other major religions dont. But as I say different countries and I shouldnt have applied circumstances here to UK & vice versa Yes he was bad 'un & we slipped badly up vetting him No, Oz. It's a tiny minority of 'extremist' Muslims that wish change, shirley? But I totally get what you're saying re differentiation. Every time something kicks off like this, there's the assumption we all rush to, first and foremost, that it's an organised terrorist attack. Except in so many cases, it's not. Many instances re massacres in the US and UK, and of course Norway a few years back. Sure, there has to be a case to look at vetting more closely. Ultimately, we're all looking for someone to blame--but in every case it HAS to be the person/s committing the attacks, no?
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Post by bormes on Dec 20, 2014 21:27:04 GMT -1
I have to say rolo, immigrants to our country have no health nor criminal background checks. Add into that the ones who have arrived in say the last thirty years have come from these countries we are talking about and these countries DO NOT have the same outlook on life for their people as our country does. Add to that the clerics imported who HATE our way of life then you have a changing attitude to us. Just the way women and girl children are treated tells us plenty about how they behave in their own country and that is a rather large elephant in the room that no one will talk about. Maily because they are terrified to upset them as there are so many now they could win the vote for a party.
Regarding the handgun ban in the UK, it was and is a cover up for VIP People who were being supplied children's videos by Hamilton and he should NEVER have had his license as he was NOT a member of a pistol club and his license was renewed because of his connections with Robertson, Forsyth and the PF and a senior policeman. None of that has been allowed to be public and in fact they have closed ALL records to it for 100 Years. He was a paedo who supplied videos to his sick friends. The government then used the media to try to control and ban ALL guns, fortunately that did not happen but even before that ban we in the UK had one of the tightest contols in the world. It was not the guns who did the damage it was and is the nutters who use them.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 20, 2014 21:27:15 GMT -1
Rolo wrote
Thats a given but then we have to ask How? and Why?
Of all the religions that come here its the Muslims that dont seem to want to integrate. A lot do but one hell of a lot dont Its very hard. Its easy to pontificate on the rights & the wrongs and what is relevant and what isnt. BUT it was a Muslim fanatic that committed the atrocity end of
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 21:48:11 GMT -1
Rolo wrote Thats a given but then we have to ask How? and Why? Of all the religions that come here its the Muslims that dont seem to want to integrate. A lot do but one hell of a lot dont Its very hard. Its easy to pontificate on the rights & the wrongs and what is relevant and what isnt. BUT it was a Muslim fanatic that committed the atrocity end of Yeah agreed, we DO need to ask the HOW and the WHY. The same way we have to with ANY random attack. But using the horrific events in Sydney to beat up a whole set of people who'd never EVER endorse some random's actions is hardly the way forward. Let's aye remember the atrocities committed by ALL countries, including our own, in the name of 'religion' and 'belief'. Not like the UKE's ever gone "It's our way or the highway" is it? Don't even start me on the US with its filthy history of 'regime-change'... It would be foolish in the extreme to 'call' more recent episodes in isolation from history. What I do know is that almost nobody wants war, nor terrorism, on this earth. End of.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 20, 2014 21:51:58 GMT -1
OF course it was religious. He was a jealot!
A lot disagreed with his outlook (because it suits them) but the whole of ISIS and their supporters here agreed with his actions
Arent all religious jealots nutters?
You are talking of UK This ISNT UK. We have never had religious or racial persecution. Dont believe any PC goody goody rubbish
In spite of this Cretin we still dont, but he was a Muslim and its their cleric & teachers job? to preach against such zealots as part of their community to ensure the chances of it happening again are remote
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