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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 22:34:25 GMT -1
Probably stupid of us all to hope that the insane murderous f*cks (three of them in two incidents) might have been captured with no loss of life to the many hostages they've taken.
Not so.
As well as the initial 12 souls who were murdered at the magazine offices, another eight innocent hostages are reported to have died tonight as French forces moved in on the two separate sieges.
I'm not stupid, I know that these insane bastards are only too willing to sacrifice themselves as martyrs and that they're prepared to take any unfortunates that cross their path with them.
But I have a question and it is this:
Is it not possible to disable by whatever means those holding hostages, without actually shooting and killing them?
Why does it have to be deadly fire-power?
Can we not use gas-type weapons to disable hostage-takers short-term and so prevent them taking desperate last minute actions when they realise the game's well and truly up?
Genuine question.
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Post by notanimby on Jan 9, 2015 22:41:25 GMT -1
Probably stupid of us all to hope that the insane murderous f*cks (three of them in two incidents) might have been captured with no loss of life to the many hostages they've taken. Not so. As well as the initial 12 souls who were murdered at the magazine offices, another eight innocent hostages are reported to have died tonight as French forces moved in on the two separate sieges. I'm not stupid, I know that these insane bastards are only too willing to sacrifice themselves as martyrs and that they're prepared to take any unfortunates that cross their path with them. But I have a question and it is this: Is it not possible to disable by whatever means those holding hostages, without actually shooting and killing them? Why does it have to be deadly fire-power? Can we not use gas-type weapons to disable hostage-takers short-term and so prevent them taking desperate last minute actions when they realise the game's well and truly up? Genuine question. Don't think there's an instantaneous knock out gas that would render everyone incapable. B will be able to answer knowledgeably on the tactics side of hostage rescue. Personally I would have liked to have seen them taken alive, not or any altruistic reason but because it fucks up their wanting to be martyrs for Allah pish. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 23:18:06 GMT -1
Same here, Nota.
Every single one that's shot dead becomes an automatic martyr and thus fuels the whole tit-for-tat cycle all over again.
That's why I asked. I find it hard to believe it's beyond our ken to find ways to temporarily disable in such circumstances without long-term harm to hostages.
It'd be daft to think we could prevent these armed to the teeth cowardly amoebae but at the same time, don't we have to be a step ahead to protect innocent folks who get caught up in seige situations?
Rhetorical question maybe.
Or is it. Do we accept 'collateral damage' by using a sledgehammer to crack a nutter?
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Post by bormes on Jan 10, 2015 11:00:51 GMT -1
Personally I would prefer prisoners, like the Balcome St. Seige.
However, the majority of times the safest way for hostages is fatal.
If a seige situation without hostages is ongoing then nonlethal (normally slower) can be tried, however it is down to the danger to others as the priority.
Apparently the two brothers came out shooting and in a dialogue, said they wished to be martyrs?
The other one is still not too clear as some hostages may have been killed before the entry?
The brothers coming out shooting suddenly caught them off gaurd I suspect as they should have gone in together (normally)
There was another hostage situation in another city but so far no mention of how it is going.
Watching the TV, I would suggest there is not a lot of changes since I was involved in this sort of training, apart from the snake like entry by a large number of personel.
One of the assaulters about to go in seemed to have his lower legs damaged by the shaped charge at the start of the assault.
There is not enough info and probably never will be to ponder why a roof entry was not used in the Kosher place?
Strange also with the CCTV etc., the accomplice "escaped" I have an idea about that!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 19:57:56 GMT -1
Don't think there's an instantaneous knock out gas that would render everyone incapable.
B will be able to answer knowledgeably on the tactics side of hostage rescue. Personally I would have liked to have seen them taken alive, not or any altruistic reason but because it fucks up their wanting to be martyrs for Allah pish. Yeah, I know, I'm just railing against how these bstrds use innocent folks as hostages in the knowledge that saving them will be paramount in all our minds. Such terrorists as IS get glory-- in their minds--- by dying in the course of their actions. I'd rather deny them that if at all possible.  |
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