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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 21:40:45 GMT -1
So. Just the 900 or so souls lost as their boat sank off Lampedusa yesterday. Women, men, young people and tiny children.
Italy, with the backing of the Westminster Government, reduced search and rescue operations for immigrant boats some months ago.
Pretty much the same policy as Australia.
Turn them back or just ignore their plight. THAT'll teach the unscrupulous traffickers to mend their ways, wont it?
Fecking brutal. Not in my name. There is just NO defence for allowing desperate folks such as this to perish while 'we' look on, us living in tthe wealthiest countries in the world.
For shame.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 22:52:42 GMT -1
Two more distress calls as I write, tonight. Off the coasts of Italy and Syria. Another few hundred PEOPLE in utter distress and imminent danger of perishing. Surely they are only doing what humans have done since the dawn of time: looking for a better place to live out their lives. That the very wealthiest of us make them queue up to escape warzones, famine and corrupt regimes so that we can judge their 'suitability' shows just how far we have come as a race. And not in a good way. There but for an accident of geopolitics, go me and mine.  |
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Post by ozneil on Apr 21, 2015 1:45:09 GMT -1
No not the same as Australia by any stretch of the imagination
Firstly the distances here are much greater and the seas are patrolled by both Indonesian and RAN
We have broadcast, widely, that people who arrive here illegally will be returned to their port of embarkation. And the ones that do get picked up by RAN for one reason or another will be taken to either Nauru or Manus Island where their claims will be examined. If found not to be refugees they will be offered free transport to their own country or a third country. They will not be offered permanent residence in Australia. If genuine refugees they will be given temporary visas and returned to their country when safe to do so. Their families are not eligible to join them.
Why should these people with money jump the queue? There are refugee camps bursting with deserving people who have been waiting for yonks.
In the last year b4 this was implemented over 1,200 drowned that we know of probably a lot more . Since this scheme was introduced NONE. The Indonesian Government warn people what will happen. We have had 3 boats turned back safely to Sri Lanka this year. The poor people had been told a pack of lies by the people smugglers.
This is distinct from refugees that come here through the UN.
That does not stop us feeling sorry for them and trying to help their countries.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 3:21:00 GMT -1
Like I said.
Australia turns them back or repatriates them to the countries theyre desperately tying to flee. That they've invested their life savings is only the exact same as any expat has done.
Oh wait though, Australia didnt take anyone like that did they. Just criminals on board Colonial ships. Australia wasnt quite as selective then, was it. Then there were those, latterly, who invested in Qantas or Cunard to get to their promised land. No different, they were economic migrants too. But that's all conveniently glossed over, of course.
Worry not, Oz. We in the West can hardly claim the high ground. But hey, lets teach them people smugglers a lesson eh?
Lets be honest, that plan aint working. People smuggling is not new. It will always exist where so called sophisticated countries continue to bomb and terrorise others in the name of regime change, or should I say, profit.
There is considerable pressure on the UKE government today again to rethink the hideous policy thats reduced search and rescue operations and to provide more resources to the Med countries in the frontline.
I've had enough of hearing about Australian quotas, rules and processes. The vast majority of Australians got in on a wing and a prayer and are now seemingly pulling the ladder up behind them.
For shame.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 21, 2015 4:15:42 GMT -1
Geees thats a nice hair shirt you are wearing! Dont try and spread your guilt. We take in more than our fair share of refugees we just wont take in illegal migrants and we tell them that and they believe us. If they want to come apply, just dont turn up at the door step and demand entry and full board. We have a system that works. It may not suit people that take the moral high ground.... tough Hell my little practise had at one time 6 nationalities, including the mandatory pom, and we were in no sense unusual. Since UK joined the EU UK citizens are on exactly the same footing as anyone else though I see some of your Pollies are trying to change that, they'll be lucky! The Bigge report found that people were committing crime that would lead to transportation to Australia. They like their predecessors served their time and settled. Our first assisted migration. It was UK that stopped that at that time. Cunard is a Canadian Company and never came here. I travelled on a Shaw Saville boat the "Akaroa"  |
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Post by bormes on Apr 21, 2015 17:53:46 GMT -1
Personally, I feel NO Guilt about Europe not patrolling the Med.
First there are African countries on the Med too.
If you want to help, STOP them leaving.
How much room has Europe got?
Do people who constantly critisize Europe realise just HOW many could come over?
We are already in the UK full up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 22:54:32 GMT -1
Geees thats a nice hair shirt you are wearing! Dont try and spread your guilt. We take in more than our fair share of refugees we just wont take in illegal migrants and we tell them that and they believe us. If they want to come apply, just dont turn up at the door step and demand entry and full board. We have a system that works. Works for who? Wow, since when did YOU subscribe to UKIP values, Oz?  These desperate people have names. They are fleeing terrible situations that you'd hope we or any of ours never have to face. No? But hey, let's let em drown, eh, because that'll bring the people smugglers to book. Ach come ON, will it FUCK. Think again and find more constructive solutions, it's hardly beyond our ken. Much is made by Tony Abbott of his claim that refugees no longer drown in Australian waters. Perhaps that's because they're turned back and drown in someone else's. It's just SO British fecking Empire to demand everyone FORMS AN ORDERLY QUEUE, what what. Nigel Farage has been quoting Tony Abbott's policy to all and sundry. Most of the UK is laughing out loud at him, as usual, but a few with IQs in single figures are applauding. Maybe they should all try and get into Australia? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 22:58:26 GMT -1
Personally, I feel NO Guilt about Europe not patrolling the Med. First there are African countries on the Med too. If you want to help, STOP them leaving. How much room has Europe got? Do people who constantly critisize Europe realise just HOW many could come over? We are already in the UK full up. I don't agree that either UK or Europe is full up. There's plenty room for people who want to come work and contribute. The ISSUE is that our governments don't expand our public services, such as health, housing and education in the light of a growing population. They'd far rather set us against each other for party political gain. Classic divide and conquer tactic. Wise up! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 23:08:54 GMT -1
Imagine this scenario. You're tending your fishing nets, making important phone calls, taking your kids to school, going about your daily business, taking your morning stroll or whatever, on the coast of Sicily. Or Crete, or Rhodes, it matters not.
A boat heaves into view, crowded beyond belief, unstable, sinking, perhaps grounded off nearby rocks. People--men, women, girls, boys, children and babes in arms-- jump off in desperation and try to swim to shore.
Do you wade in to try to help, call emergency services or just turn a blind eye to their distress and walk away like it's not your problem.
Serious question.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 23, 2015 0:13:03 GMT -1
Starting at first rant
1. System Works for us. WE have stopped illegal immigrants .... we still take in same number of refugees difference is they are all legal.
What your pollies make of our policies and if they care to misquote them is up to them and nothing to do with us.
The illegals are exactly that illegal, mostly economic refugees. We take in refugees from refugee camps. Should we let the boat people who paid people to try to smuggle them in ahead of the destitute??
We take in same number of refugees whether they are legal of illegal the total is the same
BTW the biggest number of visa over stayers are Brits.
2. UK cannot produce enough food to feed present population (about 60%) means you have to pay for the extra
3 Havent followed Med scenario closely.
I will expand on ours and fill in bits they dont want you to hear. When a boat is "turned round" the Navy ensure they have adequate fuel food and water. some set to sea with hardly any food or water and a lot are starving and dehydrated. Medical checks are done. If the boat is unseaworthy (a lot are) they are provided with a sea worthy boat with motor then they are escorted to within 12 miles (legal limit) of the coast in the case of Indonesia or until met by navy of the country their boat left from. No lives have been lost and because we have widely forecast the system the illegal refugees don try now.
If the illegals do manage to land or are brought here for any other reason they are taken to reception and detention centres om Nauru or Manus Islannd where their claims are assessed . If genuine refugees they get residence. If not they get invited to return to their own country or a third country. They can leave at any time fares paid. They dont have to stay in camps.
4 200 boat people were wrecked and drowned in a storm on the rocks off Christmas Island. Several navy guys and civilians on shore got bravery medals trying to rescue them. WE dont let them drown or come to harm if in danger we rescue them. The Indonesians do the same
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 0:24:22 GMT -1
Just wait a goddamn minute there.
Are you saying that anyone who challenges your views in rational and reasonable language is ranting?
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Post by ozneil on Apr 23, 2015 0:27:35 GMT -1
Just wait a goddamn minute there. Are you saying that anyone who challenges your views in rational and reasonable language is ranting? Hold on havent finished, sorry your language is reasonable as I would expect .. rational is open to question. |
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Post by ozneil on Apr 23, 2015 0:41:09 GMT -1
I think I have covered it
Did I miss anything?
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Post by bormes on Apr 23, 2015 7:56:13 GMT -1
Rolo,
Your wee scenario about standing on your boat and a horror starts to unfold is not really what is actually happening, however the answer is I trust that almost EVERYONE would try to help.
The problem is that you WILL find "sleepers" in many of the young men coming over and the FACT that they come from Sub Saharan Africa, means that MOST are financial immigrants.
The African coutries are the ones who MUST keep them there and HELP them over there.
Now your point is accurate about us not having enough housing and other benefits for arriving immigrants, you say we have jobs for them to take and pay their way!!
WHERE are the jobs then?
Why are so many, despite millions of immigrants here in the last fifteen years still unemployed?
Why are so many residents of our country still unemployed?
Companies are closing all the time, there is a recession we are told and it is World Wide?
Our country is FULL UP!!
We do NOT have the money NOR desire to take millions more.
I have paid my share of taxes in my life, I. Have also contributed as a soldier to my country therefore I think I have a right to say I think we should have a system of immigration similar to the Oz one and I WOULD choose ANY European to any Sub Saharan if they both had the same on their CV's By saying that I do not feel I am a racist, I will admit to NOT liking the way islam is spreading unrest and the fundamentalist groups are growing!!
I would and have helped anyone regardles of creed or colour, however that does NOT mean I want them in their millions coming to the UK,
WE CAN NOT KEEP IT UP!!
The figure if the immigration keeps up means that 75 Million will be in the UK by before the end of the 20's
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 0:36:42 GMT -1
Your wee scenario about standing on your boat and a horror starts to unfold is not really what is actually happening, however the answer is I trust that almost EVERYONE would try to help.
I agree, Bormes, it’s just human instinct to help those in danger. No question.
The problem is that you WILL find "sleepers" in many of the young men coming over and the FACT that they come from Sub Saharan Africa, means that MOST are financial immigrants.
The African coutries are the ones who MUST keep them there and HELP them over there.
But years and years of aid to such countries hasn’t yielded positive results, Bormes. So many sub Saharan countries are ruled by dictators and are corrupt in the extreme. Accepting aid but not directing it to those in need.
Take Libya for example? The West bombed the FUCK out of it to force regime change that suited Western profit ideals, but ran away fast when it came to following up and stabilising the country. The exact same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Is it really any WONDER that folks are fleeing such countries in search of a better life? We helped ruin any infrastructure they had and haven’t helped them rebuild.
Now your point is accurate about us not having enough housing and other benefits for arriving immigrants, you say we have jobs for them to take and pay their way!!
WHERE are the jobs then?
Why are so many, despite millions of immigrants here in the last fifteen years still unemployed?
Why are so many residents of our country still unemployed?
People are unemployed for a variety of reasons. The elite conglomerates are not creating jobs that pay a fair days wage for a fair days work, preferring to drive everyone down to minimum wage while taking the ever increasing profit because they know people are desperate to work even for such a paltry wage. We live now, in the UK, in a low wage economy. And many are BETTER OFF on benefits than they are in work. Serious problem and nothing to do with immigrant labour.
Companies are closing all the time, there is a recession we are told and it is World Wide?
Our country is FULL UP!!
I don’t agree. Scotland is very far from being full up. We have plenty capacity to bring in labour but of course the key is to expand the public services they will contribute to.
We do NOT have the money NOR desire to take millions more.
I have paid my share of taxes in my life, I. Have also contributed as a soldier to my country therefore I think I have a right to say I think we should have a system of immigration similar to the Oz one and I WOULD choose ANY European to any Sub Saharan if they both had the same on their CV's By saying that I do not feel I am a racist, I will admit to NOT liking the way islam is spreading unrest and the fundamentalist groups are growing!!
I doubt anyone would disagree that IS poses a threat. But IS is not Islam. And Islam is not IS. There are nutters in ANY faith and religion are there not? You simply can’t tar everyone of the Islamic faith with the one brush, shirley?
I would and have helped anyone regardles of creed or colour, however that does NOT mean I want them in their millions coming to the UK,
WE CAN NOT KEEP IT UP!!
The figure if the immigration keeps up means that 75 Million will be in the UK by before the end of the 20's
There’s plenty room in the UK. Part of the problem might be that people are concentrated in a very few urban areas, leading to overcrowding and all the problems that brings, if public services don’t keep up with demand.
I just think restricting freedom of movement will come back and bite us on the ass. If UKIP had their way, we’d be out of the EU and UKE citizens would have to revoke their current rights to live and work within the community. It would also lead to UK passport holders being even more restricted worldwide as we’d have reneged on certain human rights to freely move around.
We need to be very careful what we wish for, I think.
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