Student demos today

[Deleted]

So, riot police out in Central London tonight. Thousands of demonstrators being 'contained' on Westminster Bridge and not being allowed to go home.

Anyone else see the Met police horse charge at the kids earlier?

Now there's moral outrage that a Royal Car containing the king-in-waiting and his equally useless wife was 'attacked' on its way to some toff do somewhere. They who can afford to send their dumb kids to Oxbridge and St Andrews.

Of course the few nutjobs who're breaking windows in Topshop or whatever don't actually help because we live in the Daily Mail society where headline's all and the message is lost. The NUS needs to take steps to keep them off the demos.

There was a big demo in Glasgow today too, polis helicopter, mad flashing polis sirens yet no trouble. Total drama queens the polis were.

Now it's Cameron and May giving it 'wanton vandalism' shite---well you know what? I happen to think making higher education the sole provision of the wealthy is vandalism of the worst kind. Broken windows can get fixed.

The coalition have clearly underestimated how goddamn angry so many of us are.

[peony]

I was completely shocked when I read how much they voted to raise the tuition.

[Deleted]

So far it's only going to apply to English students, Scottish students studying in Scotland don't pay tuition fees but take out loans for maintenance expenses if they're not 'kept' by their parents. Average debt on graduation is £20,000-30,000.
They start paying back when their salary reaches £15,000.

£9000 a year is an awful lot of money, well I think so anyway--specially for 4 year honours students (medics and PHDs five years).

What roughly does it cost to send your kid to Uni in the US, Peony? Would you say it puts kids from less wealthy backgrounds off even trying to qualify?

[peony]

I just did a quick check, Rolo and the tuition at the University of Texas in Austin is 3037 GBP per semester, two semesters per year. That does not include the cost of books, lab fees, or board and keep.

Texas A&M, which is a land grant college, is about 1800 GBP not counting books, lab fees, or board and keep.

I think almost everyone who is accepted into college can get student loans. I might be wrong. Kids then graduate with a staggering debt and payment starts a month after graduation or when they are no longer enrolled as a student, I think.

Ivy League colleges are much more. My daughter went to a private college that cost 13,285 GBP a year (two semesters). She had a full ride scholarship (everything but room and board paid.) Her scholarship was based on her grades in school, not on financial need.

I think lots of people are kept from higher education because of cost of tuition and the cost of living while going to school. Most parents can't afford to support their children during college.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2010 19:47:21 GMT -1 peony said:

Ivy League colleges are much more. My daughter went to a private college that cost 13,285 GBP a year (two semesters). She had a full ride scholarship (everything but room and board paid.) Her scholarship was based on her grades in school, not on financial need.

I think lots of people are kept from higher education because of cost of tuition and the cost of living while going to school. Most parents can't afford to support their children during college.

Do you need the same or higher levels of academic qualifications to get into the Ivy League colleges--or just the wherewithal to pay for it-- or both?

It sounds good to me that your girl was rewarded on the basis of academic merit in such an expensive school. Seriously good values going on there, IMHO.

The 'average' UK wage is about £24k, take 25% off that in taxes and look at the impact of spending another £9k a year on tuition fees. It's half the take home wage and the 'average' parent can't afford it.

There are to be 'concessions' in England to students with parents on state benefits. Fair enough but actually when you look at it, I foresee a number of parents on less than the average wage- and particularly single income families-being better off giving up their jobs and becoming state-dependent just to get the tuition fees waived.

Our government is punishing all the wrong people here. There is a sense of acute anger afoot and rightly so.

[peony]

I'm no expert, but I think all the Ivy League colleges are private and very expensive. Many who go there go on scholarships and those are achievement based. Lots go there and pay the full price.

You can see from the table on this link that 97 percent of students at Yale finished in the top ten percent of their high school class. www.admissionsconsultants.com/college/ivy_league_table.asp
I think people can get good educations many places, though.

[ozneil]

Here Uni fees are £3,000- £5,000 a semester depending on subjects.

Scholarships are available on ability. Kids can get more than 1 scholarship at a time. Government will chip in a bit on financial hardship.

Scholarships come from such diverse sources as the Federal Government, Unions, large companies, Clubs, Returned Servicemen & of course the Unis themselves. All have to be without strings.

Government does provide cheap loans (HECS) which are repaid at a low rate of interest whin graduate gets a salary in excess of approx £ ( I cant remember was $30,000 say £18,000 when I was deducting it from salaries but that was awhile ago

[westender]

Dec 9, 2010 21:07:10 GMT -1 @rolo said:

The coalition have clearly underestimated how goddamn angry so many of us are.

The thing out of all of this that makes me angriest, is the reporting.

There is no doubt in my mind that those who have made the headlines in these protests are NOT bona fide British students. The ones making the headlines are hoodied, unidentifiable thugs who are not students - they are simply stupid, uneducated, thick historyless individuals looking for any excuse to get to go on the rampage in central London with a half chance of getting away with it.

Tell me this. Who here has EVER seen a hoodie-aged wean with their hood up for legitimate hood reasons - i.e. because they're frozen? Naebody. I'll bet yese anything.

Hooded tops are the enemy. Shops that sell hooded tops are the enemy. If I had been in charge in London that night, I would have arrested EMBDY that chose to attempt to keep their face hidden.

AND embdy that set foot on the cenotaph that night.

AND embdy that sprayed Churchill.



I owe Dave Gilmour a kickin.

[westender]

"..... Is that Charlie? Hello Charlie!"


....*click*......

[westender]

Dec 9, 2010 21:07:10 GMT -1 @rolo said:

well you know what? I happen to think making higher education the sole provision of the wealthy is vandalism of the worst kind.

I agree with you 100%.

But there is no doubt that what happened in London was hijacked by eejit elements that hate the brainy, as much as the true brainies hate this heinous assault on the whole concept of university education.

This instance of student protest will not - can not - possibly be seen as the same as, or a mere extension of, the protests of previous generations.

[bormes]

While totally agreeing with anyone having education, it is not free and never has been. We all that work, pay for education for all our kids anyway with the huge amount of tax paid. Our tax money is badly used that is why the buggers are charging again for education.
I know also it is sport to attack people who send their children to private schools, but these people have paid already with taxes and are paying again.
I am concerned the students are asking 6th and 5th year school kids to join their protests today in England, that does not appeal to me.

[squinty]

Why not Bormes? They kids are the next in line to be students that will be saddled with the enormous debts. A group of schoolgirls at a protest a few weeks back protected a police van, they said they weren't interested in violence.

[squinty]

Couple of days ago, the police pulled a guy out his wheelchair and dragged him across the road:

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/14/student-protests-video-protester-wheelchair

Apparently this was the second time it happened that day, and then the BBC interview him and treat him like a child;

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXNJ3MZ-AUo

[bormes]

I don't like the idea of schoolkids being at the demos because there are a small number of wnkers at these demos who are only there to cause trouble and a group of school kids is such a soft and easy target I worry the wankers could manipulate a bad situation, plenty of time for the school kids to join in later if it was needed when they are less impressionable, more mature and wiser.
I am not against the protests, just against the trouble makers, no matter what protest they appear at.