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Post by westender on Mar 10, 2011 15:46:43 GMT -1
Been saying it for years... I've seen some hair raising stuff in the Uni's St Andrews building, where they do the so-called teacher training - and now somebody somewhere has realised it's time to do something about illiterate and innumerate teachers... This situation is truly a scandal and it ought to have been shouted from the rooftops a long long time ago. www.heraldscotland.com/news/education/training-for-teachers-set-for-shake-up-1.1089536"...“Teaching Scotland’s Future”, compiled by former HM Inspectorate of Education boss Graham Donaldson, suggested wide-reaching changes in entry to teaching, teaching qualifications and continuing teacher education. Its suggestion that new trainees could face tests in reading, writing and maths"... Are they saying that currently they're not being tested??? WTF??
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Post by heidie on Mar 10, 2011 15:53:52 GMT -1
Cue the teaching unions to start up about how unfair that would be to expect teachers to be hauf inteligent or savvy about anything... Pee Ess why is there no quote or modify buttons now???
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Post by westender on Mar 10, 2011 19:56:25 GMT -1
Cue the teaching unions to start up about how unfair that would be to expect teachers to be hauf inteligent or savvy about anything... Pee Ess why is there no quote or modify buttons now??? Hmm. No probs here. Mibbe just a wee glitch? Is it back to normal now?
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Post by westender on Mar 10, 2011 19:58:01 GMT -1
Cue the teaching unions to start up about how unfair that would be to expect teachers to be hauf inteligent or savvy about anything... They can start up as much as they like, but there is ample evidence that something is well wrong with the standards of teaching. It's undeniable, and an affront.
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Post by heidie on Mar 10, 2011 20:26:19 GMT -1
Naw still nae buttons on the posts apaqrt fron report to mods/link to post and back tomtop at bottom of posts? ?
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Post by ozneil on Mar 10, 2011 20:26:33 GMT -1
Thats all very well but who is going to teach the teachers grammar or even simple maths. All the people who knew these things have retired.
When I started work I had to learn to calculate using the Duodecimal system but that has long gone by the wayside. .
Mrs Oz, when teaching here, refused to have her class in groups round tables but set them out in rows. She was harangued by the head but she stuck to her guns saying that was the way she got best results.
When the parents started to ask if kiddy could get into her class the Heidie just left her to it.
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Post by heidie on Mar 10, 2011 20:38:51 GMT -1
Found out why no buttons it wis ma adblock whit wis daein it......................
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Post by westender on Mar 10, 2011 21:26:26 GMT -1
Thats all very well but who is going to teach the teachers grammar or even simple maths. All the people who knew these things have retired. That's a bloody good question. I was a decimal kid, so we never encountered duodecimal. I think I can pretty much remember all the basics of the arithmetic I learned in primary school... except long division. Cannae do that any more. I hated arithmetic. And as for maths at secondary school...! Wasn't a numbers kid at all.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 22:23:56 GMT -1
Thats all very well but who is going to teach the teachers grammar or even simple maths. All the people who knew these things have retired. No, Oz, IMO the people with the best skills are simply not working in teaching any more. There are plenty literate and numerate people working in other industries who could be recruited for basic teacher education. It's actually quite alarming how comparatively low the qualifications are to get into school teaching these days. It used to be seen as a respected profession, now the perception is that its more for those that can't make the grade in more academic courses. "If you can't do, teach..." a modren epithet that often isn't too far from the mark. I've encountered some excellent teachers at the wean's primary and secondary schools. But sometimes utterly despaired of others. Raising basic teacher standards would be no bad thing but at the same time, it won't solve the problem of kids aged 5 going to school still drinking from trainer cups and unable to use a toilet. Our illiteracy and innumeracy issues are WAY broader than simply the ability of teachers.
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Post by westender on Mar 10, 2011 22:52:47 GMT -1
Our illiteracy and innumeracy issues are WAY broader than simply the ability of teachers. It's the lack of any and all discipline in their lives of the weans. (yeah, I know, another of my old saws) Too many of the wee horrors are now simply unteachable, and a waste of a school desk, because they can't be disciplined. They need discipline. They should not be getting indulged, or listed as 'special needs' (where did the thousands and thousands of those buggers suddenly come from?), or whatever else has taken the place of discipline in schools. If their home lives are chaotic, school is where they should be getting discipline and boundaries. It's not any more complicated than that. Oor Wullie and his pals - and those previous generations of serried ranks of schoolweans and their stern but fair dominies - were not illiterate or innumerate. Or foul mouthed, amoral, disrespectful brutes. Nor were they carrying knives, or hooked on porn, or drunk. Those strips were an accurate representation of the norms of the times. Better than these times, that's for sure.
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Post by ozneil on Mar 10, 2011 23:03:33 GMT -1
According to mrs Oz:-
She taught for a few years in Bridgeton with classes of between 35 & 40
by primary class 2 ALL kids had to be able to read & write
by Primary class 4 ALL kids had to know all tables up to 12 times table,
Rest of primary education embellishing these skills by learning grammar & doing complex arithmetic & reading to learn , not learning to read,in accordance with the Scottish syllabus
HM Inspectors ensured those standards were adhered to.
If a class was shown not to be up to standard the teacher was "talked to". The unions fought this as it discriminated against "not so good" teachers.
At that time Jordanhill had a fearsome reputation
as an aside. One of the parents at Mrs Oz's last school in Oz was saying at a parents night that her little daughter was developing a slight Scottish accent
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2011 1:53:22 GMT -1
Too many of the wee horrors are now simply unteachable, and a waste of a school desk, because they can't be disciplined. They need discipline. They should not be getting indulged, or listed as 'special needs' (where did the thousands and thousands of those buggers suddenly come from?), or whatever else has taken the place of discipline in schools. If their home lives are chaotic, school is where they should be getting discipline and boundaries.It's not any more complicated than that. I know what you're getting at but you're not seeing the bigger picture, IMO. Teachers can do their level best but if the parents are working against what they're trying to instil, they're on a hiding to nothing. You simply CAN'T expect young kids to take lessons learned at school re discipline into chaotic home lives. What's the point of teaching 'boundaries' to kids when their own parents don't back up or even begin to recognise what boundaries are? You, Westie, have come from a home where education was deemed important. But so many kids don't have that. Even at the wean's school in the year 2011, so many kids leave school at the first possible opportunity age just 16 because their parent/s want them out to work and contributing to the household bills. You simply MUST recognise that not all parents value their kids' education. Don't blame the kids, blame the parents. Or their parents. Oz, Jordanhill still has a fearsome rep but it's not a fair comparison. I'm an FP. It's an exceptional school that works under exceptional conditions. And the people who send their kids there are highly motivated so it's not comparable to Glasgow (or even Scottish) state schools. If only it were the norm
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Post by ozneil on Mar 11, 2011 2:26:23 GMT -1
Oz, Jordanhill still has a fearsome rep but it's not a fair comparison. I'm an FP. It's an exceptional school that works under exceptional conditions. And the people who send their kids there are highly motivated so it's not comparable to Glasgow (or even Scottish) state schools. If only it were the norm Sorry I meant Jordanhill Teachers Training College BTW I shook Sylvia Sim's hand there (a brush with fame) A guy I worked with went to Jordanhill school. Thats my only knowledge of the school.
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Post by bormes on Mar 11, 2011 7:45:01 GMT -1
I too think Westy is speaking the truth but I still feel all children should have the discipline and standards adhered to, even as Roly says some of them have a chaotic home life and my reason for that is it shows these unlucky enough to have had a home life that is bad, there are other ways of behaving. There is NO question our education standards have fallen and I must ask why ? Personally I think very strongly it is because our political and business masters do not want ordinary people educated as they might have the effront to question why certain things are being done. An example is Bliar's illegal war, if so many labour supporters had backed others to demonstrate against the invasion, perhaps he would have not gone in as he would have realised he would be out of office. (I know some decent labour supporters did object, just not enough) Robin Cook seemed to be the only labour M.P. that came out of that sad episode with any dignity.
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Post by ozneil on Mar 11, 2011 19:52:22 GMT -1
Of course politicians are trying to dumb down the populace it gives them more power which most of them crave and hides their appalling ignorance.
I am talking about here but I believe its the same in the UK.
Two examples here are KRudd & Combert Ex PM & Climate minister respectively both bleated on about Global Warming & rising sea levels. Both have recently bought multi-million $ beach side properties!!!
They wonder why the populace is getting a tad cynical. let us hope the pendulam has started to swing
BTW we are having a state election on 26th. Latest opinion polls show Labour will have 20% vote
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