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Post by westender on Jul 15, 2011 14:55:37 GMT -1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14130854?postId=109682310#comment_109682310"The concerns were echoed by the Confederation of British Industry (CBI), whose head of education and skills warned that too many employers were having to invest in remedial literacy lessons for their staff." It's the same for the uni first years. You couldnae make this up!! When I was at school, EVERY spelling & grammar mistake was circled in red pen and we were made to write it out again. Can somebody tell me when that stopped happening - and more importantly, why? Typos and crap spelling and grammar all over the place since the rise of the internet. It is promoting illiteracy and ignorance. I hate it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2011 17:39:28 GMT -1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14130854?postId=109682310#comment_109682310"The concerns were echoed by the Confederation of British Industry (CBI), whose head of education and skills warned that too many employers were having to invest in remedial literacy lessons for their staff." It's the same for the uni first years. You couldnae make this up!! When I was at school, EVERY spelling & grammar mistake was circled in red pen and we were made to write it out again. Can somebody tell me when that stopped happening - and more importantly, why? Typos and crap spelling and grammar all over the place since the rise of the internet. It is promoting illiteracy and ignorance. I hate it. Likewise I've been amazed watching the wean's progress through the English curriculum to find that spelling is no longer a priority. She has always been good at spelling mainly because she was a reader of books since she was tiny wee. However, some classmates in English Standard and Higher grades are not penalised for bad spelling or grammar, while those who consistently perform better can get marked up by a couple of points for their presentation. I believe the thinking has been that expression of ideas and a knowledge and understanding of the text outweighs the language in which it's stated. Which I personally don't agree with myself. Because spelling is a big bugbear with me. Everyone in my team at work has a decent degree from a decent uni, yet some still spell way better than others. The ones who're less practiced in spelling use spellchecker before publishing any docs. Only yesterday one wrote prelims as pre-limbs ;D ;D ;D This goes back years to primary education, it's hardly the fault of the student and young worker population we see now.
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Post by ozneil on Jul 15, 2011 21:58:18 GMT -1
One of may duties as a building consultant was to examine contract documents & I mean really examine them, to look for discrepancies or ambiguities which could lead to the claiming of an "extra". Depending on who my client was the error or ambiguity would be removed or exploited to claim extras after the contract was won. If the error(s) were big enough the tender price was lowered to gain job the builder being aware he would regain his profit on the error. The Documents had to be correct for both Grammar & Spelling to remove any ambiguity . They never were Different . As I have said before the local schools here compete for pupils one had a sign outside which read in part "....... WITH A SPECIAL EMPHASIS ON GRAMMER (sic) AND SPELLING>>>"
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Post by westender on Jul 15, 2011 23:25:01 GMT -1
I believe the thinking has been that expression of ideas and a knowledge and understanding of the text outweighs the language in which it's stated. Which I personally don't agree with myself. Quote bloody right, because it is pish thinking. Totally indefensible. Spellcheckers are no use to the illiterate. If you don't know how a thing is spelt, how can you decide on the suggestions given by the (so-called) spellchecker? An abomination. If I ruled the world, the whole notion would be done away with. If you need to check a spelling, use a reputable dictionary.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2011 1:12:15 GMT -1
[ Spellcheckers are no use to the illiterate. If you don't know how a thing is spelt, how can you decide on the suggestions given by the (so-called) spellchecker? Fucked if I know Pisses me off on a daily basis that my puter underlines every word I write that's not in US spelling, as in organizations even though I've set the default to English. It even ticks me off if I have comma in the wrong place due to a wee spacing mistake. Fucker. BAH, BAH and thrice BAH
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Post by ozneil on Jul 16, 2011 2:26:31 GMT -1
As I mentioned above our firm does building document checks. One of our best clients a Government Department which is in danger of being taken over by a bigger department and are always trying to prove they are better. The bigger dept did a set of documents for our client "to show them how it should be done". We were asked to check the documents & pick out every minor discrepancy and make our report as big as possible. I got 2 guys to do it & I checked. We did a huge report & as a result there was a pretty heavy meeting about it. For my sins I was at the meeting with both sides having a Public Service snarl at each other. I was reading slightly ahead of the meeting to polish up my answers when I saw it (oh Feck). The spec read ".... protect all PVC piping from ultra-viole nt damage". Obviously the spell checker had changed violet to violent & the Specification Writer had missed it. My guy obviously bored to tears had queried by asking. "Do you consider this project will be prove to have excessive vandalism"? (who says Chinese havent a sense of humour) I had missed that gem in my final check & he forgot to warn me! The meeting proceeded getting close to offending clause with me hurriedly trying to think up a watertight excuse... no good none came to mind. The Specification writer, a dour Scot, who had been hammered all the way through the meeting & was getting angrier & angrier sees it & says "well I suppose there is a place for levity )" if looks could kill, he was fuming. I thought that's me fecked!! However the Gods' were shining on me the dour Scot's boss an Indian named Veejay started chuckling & then a real belly laugh. I was off the hook and the tension went out of the meeting. Veejay has since asked us to check some of his departments documents.
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Post by westender on Jul 16, 2011 14:10:20 GMT -1
Fucked if I know Pisses me off on a daily basis that my puter underlines every word I write that's not in US spelling, as in organizations even though I've set the default to English. It even ticks me off if I have comma in the wrong place due to a wee spacing mistake. Fucker. BAH, BAH and thrice BAH Can't you switch off the spelling and grammar checkers?
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Post by notanimby on Jul 16, 2011 15:12:00 GMT -1
Fucked if I know Pisses me off on a daily basis that my puter underlines every word I write that's not in US spelling, as in organizations even though I've set the default to English. It even ticks me off if I have comma in the wrong place due to a wee spacing mistake. Fucker. BAH, BAH and thrice BAH Can't you switch off the spelling and grammar checkers? In the corporate IT world - usually not - The software is rolled oot automatically after an instance of it is built to satisfy an design document. That will include everything like spell checkers, cursors, wallpaper etc etc etc The last thing any IT department wants is ignorent users bein allowed tae change stuff and hence fukkin things up - remember ah wiz goin on aboot "cost of ownership" in a previous thread Personally speekin ah wouldnae even let users pick their ain password change colour schemes, desktop pikchurs etc etc Give them fek all room tae manoover and jist enough tools tae dae whut they need tae dae
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Post by westender on Jul 16, 2011 18:32:24 GMT -1
In the corporate IT world - usually not - The software is rolled oot automatically after an instance of it is built to satisfy an design document. That will include everything like spell checkers, cursors, wallpaper etc etc etc MS Office seems to be infinitely customisable in terms of user preferences. I've never had any problems changing settings to my preferences in any work situation where I've had to use it. Remember I was going on about how the geeks don't understand the psychology of the real people in the real world who have to use the damned things? "I am not a number, I am a free man"
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Post by notanimby on Jul 17, 2011 7:43:23 GMT -1
In the corporate IT world - usually not - The software is rolled oot automatically after an instance of it is built to satisfy an design document. That will include everything like spell checkers, cursors, wallpaper etc etc etc MS Office seems to be infinitely customisable in terms of user preferences. I've never had any problems changing settings to my preferences in any work situation where I've had to use it. That is the problem, it is virtually infinitely customisable which allows users to footer aboot to much. When yoo huvtae support hunnerz if not thoosands of users yoo huvtae make it as easy and straightforward as possible - its a cost driven exercise - in fact a lot of workstations nooadays are using server based applicatioins which makes it even easier againRemember I was going on about how the geeks don't understand the psychology of the real people in the real world who have to use the damned things? Cost of ownership isnae a geek driven thing - its a financial driven thing - it makes support easier an d cheaper, it helps you plan easier and cheaper too"I am not a number, I am a free man" Naw yoo urnae - at work yer a user and and an employee beinhg allowed use of the company's equipment tae dae yer work - they make ra rules
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Post by westender on Jul 17, 2011 10:55:47 GMT -1
That is the problem, it is virtually infinitely customisable which allows users to footer aboot to much. When yoo huvtae support hunnerz if not thoosands of users yoo huvtae make it as easy and straightforward as possible - its a cost driven exercise - in fact a lot of workstations nooadays are using server based applicatioins which makes it even easier again Ok, well if that's the case, surely Mr Gates understood that, surely he certainly understood the idea of 'cost driven exercise'. Why then did he make his software, that took over the world, so easily customisable by the unlearned hordes? Well, apparently not, if you allow the hordes to use software they can customise. If they can, they will. If you don't want them to dicker around because their dickering costs money, why give them eminently dicker-able kit? You're a human being first and foremost, no matter how your employer thinks they can treat you. Humans want to shape their space. And MS allows the user to customise what they must use. MS understands the psychology of the unlearned end user ('I am not a number I am a free man'); it allows the labrats to dicker about with the software and distract themselves, without affecting the software's functionality. Astute move by MS, I think. The geeks don't understand. They do nothing but complain when the users change anything, despite the fact that they know fine well how infinitely customisable the product is. Folk will ALWAYS dicker. Any employer who wants strictly controlled labrats to do the work should not then invest in a product that allows the labrats to dicker & distract themselves....yet everyone uses MS. The two concepts are incompatible.
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Post by notanimby on Jul 17, 2011 12:52:49 GMT -1
That is the problem, it is virtually infinitely customisable which allows users to footer aboot to much. When yoo huvtae support hunnerz if not thoosands of users yoo huvtae make it as easy and straightforward as possible - its a cost driven exercise - in fact a lot of workstations nooadays are using server based applicatioins which makes it even easier again Ok, well if that's the case, surely Mr Gates understood that, surely he certainly understood the idea of 'cost driven exercise'. Why then did he make his software, that took over the world, so easily customisable by the unlearned hordes? He disnae give a fuk whut people dae wae it - he jist wants ra license money Well, apparently not, if you allow the hordes to use software they can customise. If they can, they will. Thats why in teh corporate environment we shut maist stuff doon tae stop the fukkers dein stuff wae it tae fuk it upIf you don't want them to dicker around because their dickering costs money, why give them eminently dicker-able kit? They get kit that is locked doon tae only give whut hey arer meant to get - the software is bought aff ra shelf and then customised tae suit - otherwise there would be millyins of versions
It's like buying a works van - you maistly buy the same type so they ur easier tae customise(signs etc) and easier tae look efter
Yoo go an dbuy a transit ad then get it painted the way you want it fur example - yoo dinnae go oot and get ford tae design a whole new van everytime you want tae change sumthin - it would cost a forchoonYou're a human being first and foremost, no matter how your employer thinks they can treat you. Humans want to shape their space. Of course they do - but alas nae wan is forcing users tae work there - they kin either lump it or fek aff Ah wance installed a complete system hunnerz users - all had tinternet, microsoft office and whutever else they needed tae dae thur work - they didnae huvva PC as such they hudda terminal - nae floppy, nae CD/DVD, nuthin, nada Users moaned like fek - they couldnae add thur ain software, listen tae CDs blah blah blah
They were tellt tae fek aff like it or lump it - they did costs were driven right doon within weeksAnd MS allows the user to customise what they must use. MS understands the psychology of the unlearned end user ('I am not a number I am a free man'); it allows the labrats to dicker about with the software and distract themselves, without affecting the software's functionality. Astute move by MS, I think. Nope not astute but because in the corporate environment software is configured then rolled oot tae users automatically - tae whutever corporate standards are in place - MS make something that they think is wan size fits all, then the corporate trims it tae suit themThe geeks don't understand. They do nothing but complain when the users change anything, despite the fact that they know fine well how infinitely customisable the product is. That is poor management of the IT infrastructure then, the configuration management team want their baws kicked fur allowing it in the furst place - but then again yoo work in acadaemia land Folk will ALWAYS dicker. Any employer who wants strictly controlled labrats to do the work should not then invest in a product that allows the labrats to dicker & distract themselves....yet everyone uses MS. The two concepts are incompatible. Not everyone uses MS, most do granted but not everyone. Yoo kin get shite like "open office" or as its sometimes known "star office" If all you do is type letters and send emails it may be fine but in corporate environment its shite - especially if you use macros and plugins like essbase Its not used by many because its the best but because of good marketing Yer showing yer ignorence again. its uptae ra purchaser of software app/licenses how they deem it should be configured and used
Whe you by software aff ra shelf it comes in ra wan size almost - you huvtae configure it tae get it tae dae whit you want - it disnae work right oot the box wae nae input whutsoever in the corporate envirojnment - in the hoose its diffrint, yoo kin dae as yoo please
When a used tae design systems and software/hardware roll-oots - it wiz always wae the set ideal that you gave the users as little leeway as possible - it costs to much tae support tae let users start changing to much ur adding bits tae it
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Post by westender on Jul 17, 2011 13:30:51 GMT -1
Ok, well if that's the case, surely Mr Gates understood that, surely he certainly understood the idea of 'cost driven exercise'. Why then did he make his software, that took over the world, so easily customisable by the unlearned hordes? He disnae give a fuk whut people dae wae it - he jist wants ra license money Well, apparently not, if you allow the hordes to use software they can customise. If they can, they will. Thats why in teh corporate environment we shut maist stuff doon tae stop the fukkers dein stuff wae it tae fuk it upIf you don't want them to dicker around because their dickering costs money, why give them eminently dicker-able kit? They get kit that is locked doon tae only give whut hey arer meant to get - the software is bought aff ra shelf and then customised tae suit - otherwise there would be millyins of versions
It's like buying a works van - you maistly buy the same type so they ur easier tae customise(signs etc) and easier tae look efter
Yoo go an dbuy a transit ad then get it painted the way you want it fur example - yoo dinnae go oot and get ford tae design a whole new van everytime you want tae change sumthin - it would cost a forchoonYou're a human being first and foremost, no matter how your employer thinks they can treat you. Humans want to shape their space. Of course they do - but alas nae wan is forcing users tae work there - they kin either lump it or fek aff Ah wance installed a complete system hunnerz users - all had tinternet, microsoft office and whutever else they needed tae dae thur work - they didnae huvva PC as such they hudda terminal - nae floppy, nae CD/DVD, nuthin, nada Users moaned like fek - they couldnae add thur ain software, listen tae CDs blah blah blah
They were tellt tae fek aff like it or lump it - they did costs were driven right doon within weeksAnd MS allows the user to customise what they must use. MS understands the psychology of the unlearned end user ('I am not a number I am a free man'); it allows the labrats to dicker about with the software and distract themselves, without affecting the software's functionality. Astute move by MS, I think. Nope not astute but because in the corporate environment software is configured then rolled oot tae users automatically - tae whutever corporate standards are in place - MS make something that they think is wan size fits all, then the corporate trims it tae suit themThe geeks don't understand. They do nothing but complain when the users change anything, despite the fact that they know fine well how infinitely customisable the product is. That is poor management of the IT infrastructure then, the configuration management team want their baws kicked fur allowing it in the furst place - but then again yoo work in acadaemia land Folk will ALWAYS dicker. Any employer who wants strictly controlled labrats to do the work should not then invest in a product that allows the labrats to dicker & distract themselves....yet everyone uses MS. The two concepts are incompatible. Not everyone uses MS, most do granted but not everyone. Yoo kin get shite like "open office" or as its sometimes known "star office" If all you do is type letters and send emails it may be fine but in corporate environment its shite - especially if you use macros and plugins like essbase Its not used by many because its the best but because of good marketing Yer showing yer ignorence again. its uptae ra purchaser of software app/licenses how they deem it should be configured and used
Whe you by software aff ra shelf it comes in ra wan size almost - you huvtae configure it tae get it tae dae whit you want - it disnae work right oot the box wae nae input whutsoever in the corporate envirojnment - in the hoose its diffrint, yoo kin dae as yoo please
When a used tae design systems and software/hardware roll-oots - it wiz always wae the set ideal that you gave the users as little leeway as possible - it costs to much tae support tae let users start changing to much ur adding bits tae itWell I would attempt to answer your points here, but as you've made a complete arse of the posts, I cannae be bothered sorting it out for you.
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Post by notanimby on Jul 17, 2011 15:30:10 GMT -1
Well I would attempt to answer your points here, but as you've made a complete arse of the posts, I cannae be bothered sorting it out for you. aye right yer ignorence knows no bounds - away and hide in ra cupboeard uneerr ra stairs
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Post by westender on Jul 17, 2011 15:59:05 GMT -1
Well I would attempt to answer your points here, but as you've made a complete arse of the posts, I cannae be bothered sorting it out for you. aye right yer ignorence knows no bounds - away and hide in ra cupboeard uneerr ra stairs I'm not ignorant. I quite enjoy discusing this subject, and I would have been happy to discuss it further - but you, mr computer genius, have rendered it impossible because you apparently cannae work a simple interface.
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