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Post by notanimby on Jul 17, 2011 17:24:23 GMT -1
aye right yer ignorence knows no bounds - away and hide in ra cupboeard uneerr ra stairs I'm not ignorant. I quite enjoy discusing this subject, and I would have been happy to discuss it further - but you, mr computer genius, have rendered it impossible because you apparently cannae work a simple interface. I am not a computer genius - not by a long chalk - jist 25 years experienced in designing and installing and supporting IT systems. FYI - windows is not the simplest interface either, its not even an interface. Come back an dchat whence yoo kin unnerstaun it Rekimended reading Anything on IT TCO (total cost of ownership) google it, there's plenty of white papers on it; its non-tecnhical so dinnae fret aboot geeky thinsg - as ah huv sed its finance abd value fur money driven |
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Post by westender on Jul 17, 2011 18:23:49 GMT -1
FYI - windows is not the simplest interface either, its not even an interface. Sigh. I never at any point said it was. FFS. I've lost count of the number of times you've posted responses when you clearly haven't taken in what you're responding to, or you're making up what the other person said. You do it all the time. As I have said, I was pefectly willing to chat - it was you that rendered it impossible because you cannae apparently work the perfectly simple kit. Hahaha. From you?? Hahaha. I don't need reading recommendations from you... you, whose incomprehensible gibberish one has to spend time deciphering to work out of there's anything actually there to respond to. (Cue loumouth bold and caps accusations of ignorance, don't know what I'm talking about, etc etc ) |
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Post by notanimby on Jul 18, 2011 6:47:47 GMT -1
FYI - windows is not the simplest interface either, its not even an interface. Sigh. I never at any point said it was. FFS. I've lost count of the number of times you've posted responses when you clearly haven't taken in what you're responding to, or you're making up what the other person said. You do it all the time. As I have said, I was pefectly willing to chat - it was you that rendered it impossible because you cannae apparently work the perfectly simple kit. Hahaha. From you?? Hahaha. I don't need reading recommendations from you... you, whose incomprehensible gibberish one has to spend time deciphering to work out of there's anything actually there to respond to. (Cue loumouth bold and caps accusations of ignorance, don't know what I'm talking about, etc etc ) fur fuks sake i wiz trying tae rekimend whut tae google fur and whut tae read up on tae alleviate yer obvious ignorence on the subject at hand - but alas some people....eh?............. Ah write teknical documents on IT infrastruckchur as part of ma work - ah huv been daein it fur years as pointit oot before - its no jist a matter of buyin stuff aff ra shelf it huztae be thought oot properly - especially ra costs involved with buying, managing, supporting, maintaining, longevity, upgrading, capital write downs etc etc etc |
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Post by westender on Jul 18, 2011 10:39:51 GMT -1
fur fuks sake i wiz trying tae rekimend whut tae google fur and whut tae read up on tae alleviate yer obvious ignorence on the subject at hand Just because I'm not speaking a language you (wish to) understand doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not interested in reading up on your field. I'm interested in discussing the situation as I observe it is now. The different planets of the folk behind the bringing in of computers and the hapless end users interests me. Fine, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the money. I am talking about badly managed, barely understood and (to the best of my knowledge) completely unacknowledged psychological gulfs that have emerged between the tech monkeys and the rest of us since we all became chained to computers. I include you in that - my understanding is you're part of the netword of techies that are responsible for what we find ourselves sitting in front of. I suspect those unacknowledged gulfs are what costs the most, and not just financially. |
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Post by notanimby on Jul 18, 2011 11:19:32 GMT -1
fur fuks sake i wiz trying tae rekimend whut tae google fur and whut tae read up on tae alleviate yer obvious ignorence on the subject at hand Just because I'm not speaking a language you (wish to) understand doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not interested in reading up on your field. I'm interested in discussing the situation as I observe it is now. The different planets of the folk behind the bringing in of computers and the hapless end users interests me. Fine, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the money. I am talking about badly managed, barely understood and (to the best of my knowledge) completely unacknowledged psychological gulfs that have emerged between the tech monkeys and the rest of us since we all became chained to computers. I include you in that - my understanding is you're part of the netword of techies that are responsible for what we find ourselves sitting in front of. I suspect those unacknowledged gulfs are what costs the most, and not just financially. ma speciality used tae be designing systems around whut teh business and its users actually needed, not what teh users thought they needed To work productively the average user, in the corporate environment needs below word processor email spreadsheet internet/intranet access printer access additions may be on the more peculiar to the business like - terminal emulation - mainframe access etc To do all the above for as minimal an outlay as possible is the challenge -it all costs a lot of money of licenses so whe rolling out workstations tae users you can tailor it tae whut ra user actually needs - not what they want From a personal point of view (which is based on cost and ease of support) I would not give users PCs I would give them a terminal and they access apps through that - exactly same as apps on a PC would be but cheaper - doing it this way you use concurrent licensing and not per seat using copncurrent licensing agreements, from my experience save aboot 25 - 50% of licensing costs as in the main (through my experience) thats is take up usage on any appication at any wan time (normal office hours) If you follow the per seat licensing you pay 100% of the cost. As i have said previously actual PCs on the desktop is a big cost both in overheads like power, support and capital expenditure - therefore just giving users terminals (by HP, Wyse, acer etc) saves on teh hardware cost and even more on teh support, there can be no moving parts in the terminals like DC/DVD drives, floppy disks and hard disks. Security - allowing users to have access to CD/DVD drives and teh likes of USB sockets to add pendrives into is a crisis waiting to happen - lock everything down to stop this - most popular way of introducin viruses and piracy into a corporate network. Allowing people to store personal info on work computers is aa big no-no too - the users can stick it up their erse - leaves the company open to data protection act complaints, anti-piracy complaints etc The ongoing costs of PCs to a company are phenominal, last thing any smart company wants is users jist making it even harder. In ma experience the worst workplaces for not having standards (or having them but not enforcing them) are the public sector - coonsils, health boards and academia. Then tey moan aboot their costs and any downtime they have fur their lax policies all going wrong Oh how ah huv laughed so many times watchin users and companies in grief coz they have fekked it up, despite bein telt (and spending good money on being "educated" on the issues) yoo kin lead a horse tae wattur etc Thestories are legion I could tell but thats another story |
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Post by heidie on Jul 18, 2011 17:14:24 GMT -1
Mibbes its jist me,westie,but seems tae me that Noty is calmin doon an tryin,nicely tae impart a daud o knawlidje tae ye annat,so mibbes if ye lay doon yer nunchucks ye might find some o it innerestin an mibbes expand yer views a wee bitty...ye never know,an onywey it widny hurt....  |
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Post by westender on Jul 18, 2011 21:33:46 GMT -1
Mibbes its jist me,westie,but seems tae me that Noty is calmin doon an tryin,nicely tae impart a daud o knawlidje tae ye annat, I agree entirely, but he's been doing that only since post #19; and I have told him already that what he is trying to impart to me is not something I'm interested in talking about. I am interested in discussing psychologies, not technicalities. I made that clear. He apparently is ignoring that, and giving me the technicalities of what he does. He's ignoring what I said. Ye never know, indeed; but having had a geek boyf immersed, ever since I've known him, in all things puter, and in everything & more of what nota's talking about, I know all I need or want to know about that side of the subject. I've made that clear to nota. ps: what's nunchucks? |
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Post by notanimby on Jul 19, 2011 8:29:32 GMT -1
The reasoning is hee-haw tae dae wae "technicalities" - its tae dae wae cost savings and value fur money
Teh "psychology" of it matters not a jot at he end ov ra day - users are given tools tae dae thur job - if they don't like those tools or the restrictions placed on them, well thats jist tuff
Please don't assume that jist because MS Office is the most popular app around that it is te best one around, there have been many better in teh past and will no doubt be again
As an analogy - When VCRs started oot the best quality (pikchur and technically) wurr Betamax as opposed tae VHS. VHS won that war because in some ways it wiz cheaper (tae make and maintain) BUT it was far from the best
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Post by Sir Henry Rawlinson on Jul 19, 2011 8:56:28 GMT -1
I am currently telling my company that it is racist to force me to spell in American English as I am English and have a right to be so. !
How about modern business writing. Is that the most fucked up crap ever?
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Post by westender on Jul 19, 2011 9:27:44 GMT -1
The reasoning is hee-haw tae dae wae "technicalities" - its tae dae wae cost savings and value fur money Thos are technicalities as far as I'm concerned; of no interest to those who have to use what is provided. It may not matter to those whose job it is to provide and maintain the kit, such as yourself, but it's nonetheless an interesting subject. Personally I have observed over the years major gulfs created by a lack of understanding and ability to communicate between geek/techie and end user that have been the cause of the wasting of countless frustrating hours of time, talk and effort. While those wasted hours take place on the premises of their employer, the employer is throwing money down the drain in totally wasted time. I'm well aware of that. But by and large, apart from those interested in status symbols, the end user will always go for the cheaper option so long as the end result is acceptable to them. To my eyes, having never known anything else apart from Open office, (which the boyf installed on my puter and I got him to uninstall ) MS does a perfectly acceptable job. The difference between computers & software, and everything else mankind has ever been interested in buying, is that 99% of the computer consumers know they need to have the damned things but they haven't a clue what the things are, how they work, what goes into them - and they can't possibly judge what they're seeing. |
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Post by notanimby on Jul 19, 2011 9:52:45 GMT -1
The reasoning is hee-haw tae dae wae "technicalities" - its tae dae wae cost savings and value fur money Thos are technicalities as far as I'm concerned; of no interest to those who have to use what is provided. It may not matter to those whose job it is to provide and maintain the kit, such as yourself, but it's nonetheless an interesting subject. Personally I have observed over the years major gulfs created by a lack of understanding and ability to communicate between geek/techie and end user that have been the cause of the wasting of countless frustrating hours of time, talk and effort. While those wasted hours take place on the premises of their employer, the employer is throwing money down the drain in totally wasted time. I'm well aware of that. But by and large, apart from those interested in status symbols, the end user will always go for the cheaper option so long as the end result is acceptable to them. To my eyes, having never known anything else apart from Open office, (which the boyf installed on my puter and I got him to uninstall ) MS does a perfectly acceptable job. The difference between computers & software, and everything else mankind has ever been interested in buying, is that 99% of the computer consumers know they need to have the damned things but they haven't a clue what the things are, how they work, what goes into them - and they can't possibly judge what they're seeing. Yoo are either starting to understand whut am on aboot, well a bit anyways Yo have to further increase the gulf between the likes of maself and geeks, ur maybe whut we mean by geeks is diffrint. Fur example ah cannae be ersed fixin PCs any merr, always willing tae offer advice etc though - fixing home PCs is a fekkking nightmare because wae users "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" - unfortuntaley this type of user then transfers this "knowledge" to the work place and feks things up in an even merr expensive manner - they huvtae be stopped frae doing that - sacking anywan who does tends to sort out in a psychological fashion anywan else frae daein it In the corporate world, the end-user can't go with the "cheapest" option - they usually have no concept of what that means - it is most definately NOT the purchase price of say a desktop PC - there is a bigger pikchur - especially in corporate world, where standards -industry and corporate have to be maintained. |
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