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Post by notanimby on Oct 12, 2011 6:45:28 GMT -1
Fek all up wae ra computers - to really fuk things up you need human intervention No. In order to ensure it gets done conscientiously and timeously, you need to go back to the days before computers were every bloody where. How did a uni founded in 1451, that fostered and sent some of the greatest human minds out into the world, manage before computers? Answer: a damn sight better than it manages now, evidently. There was nothing like any of today's hassles when I first arrived at uni in 1986. No computers. ALL the processes required to run the huge organisation smoothly, ran like clockwork and it went without saying that they could be relied upon to do so. The problem is EVERYTHING to do with the shortsighted and disastrously managed forced introduction of computers where they were unnecessary. They possibly would have been a boon if they HAD done as promised... but they never, ever have; and we're drowning in paper, financial mismanagement/disasters and eyepopping incompetence more now than ever solely because of the damned things. I don't believe for one minit that GU didn't have computers doing back-office stuff in 1986 - even the likes of jimmy watt in greenock had them doing that in early 1980s
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 0:22:10 GMT -1
How did a uni founded in 1451, that fostered and sent some of the greatest human minds out into the world, manage before computers? Answer: a damn sight better than it manages now, evidently. There was nothing like any of today's hassles when I first arrived at uni in 1986. No computers. ALL the processes required to run the huge organisation smoothly, ran like clockwork and it went without saying that they could be relied upon to do so. The problem is EVERYTHING to do with the shortsighted and disastrously managed forced introduction of computers where they were unnecessary. They possibly would have been a boon if they HAD done as promised... but they never, ever have; and we're drowning in paper, financial mismanagement/disasters and eyepopping incompetence more now than ever solely because of the damned things. Ahem. Computers are but potentially useful machines, don't you know. They're not yet AI (artificial intelligence) therefore they are only a tool that's only as good as the people that programme them.IMHO one of the biggest problems we have is computer nerds who can do binary blindfold but with NO understanding of communications and what's more, NOT a fukcing scooby of real life applications. The biggest single issue in building useful interactive sites and complex databases is that the builders so often FAIL to listen to what their clients need and want to achieve. I'd be interested to hear if Nota agrees or disagrees with that.
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Post by ozneil on Oct 13, 2011 2:41:04 GMT -1
Try doing & updating a Critical Path Network (CPN) without one!!!!
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Post by notanimby on Oct 13, 2011 7:02:17 GMT -1
How did a uni founded in 1451, that fostered and sent some of the greatest human minds out into the world, manage before computers? Answer: a damn sight better than it manages now, evidently. There was nothing like any of today's hassles when I first arrived at uni in 1986. No computers. ALL the processes required to run the huge organisation smoothly, ran like clockwork and it went without saying that they could be relied upon to do so. The problem is EVERYTHING to do with the shortsighted and disastrously managed forced introduction of computers where they were unnecessary. They possibly would have been a boon if they HAD done as promised... but they never, ever have; and we're drowning in paper, financial mismanagement/disasters and eyepopping incompetence more now than ever solely because of the damned things. Ahem. Computers are but potentially useful machines, don't you know. They're not yet AI (artificial intelligence) therefore they are only a tool that's only as good as the people that programme them.IMHO one of the biggest problems we have is computer nerds who can do binary blindfold but with NO understanding of communications and what's more, NOT a fukcing scooby of real life applications. The biggest single issue in building useful interactive sites and complex databases is that the builders so often FAIL to listen to what their clients need and want to achieve. I'd be interested to hear if Nota agrees or disagrees with that. Yes I agree 100% It happens all the time - for some reason publicly funded bodies suffer worse from it. Many databases systems can be bought "off r shelf" and tailored to suit needs. Maist popular wans (qathough others do exist)are Oracle SQL Sybase Please do not confuse MS Access as being a datyabase, it is shite, may be ok for catalogin yer record/cd collection but I wouldn't give it house room. Most corporates don't use it either, I've worked with companies were people have used it and its all went tits up and expect it to be fixed for them, it's hilarious to watch them getting thur baws kicked for not using approved software an dlosing important info Access is not scaleable, is flaky and has to compressed on a regular basis It's amazing the number of "IT" folk who reccommend ACCESS as a solution
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Post by westender on Oct 13, 2011 11:07:06 GMT -1
Ahem. Computers are but potentially useful machines, don't you know. They're not yet AI (artificial intelligence) therefore they are only a tool that's only as good as the people that programme them.I agree completely. I certainly agree. My point is, so much of what has been forcibly introduced HAS been 1. totally unnecessary. The modern curse: providing 'solutions' to situations that are not at all problematical. 2. disastrously implemented. As I have long held, nobody EVER consults the people who will end up having to use the damned things. Nobody understands the nature of the jobs those people do. The wisdom of e.g. one university administrator of many years' standing as to how to ensure things run smoothly, is worth a million times the knowledge some geek has as to what their system will (or rather, is supposed to) do once imposed. A blind man could see that. The implementation of new systems wherever I have encountered them, has never ever ceased to astonish me, as to how absolutely cackhandedly it's been done. Blind incomprehension on all sides, and those unconsulted people who were demonstrably running a smooth and efficient system are all made demonstrably less efficient, less certain, more impoverished and are basically enslaved by the mess that results... see original post. I've been reading Private Eye a long time. I don't believe there is ANY aspect of modern life that has been demonstrably improved or made one iota more efficient by the introduction of unnecessary and ruinously expensive computer systems. I believe much has become a damn sight less efficient. EVERYTHING ran better and more efficiently when it was people's knowledge and skills that were valued, because it was people and not computers who ran the show.
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Post by westender on Oct 13, 2011 11:26:40 GMT -1
I don't believe for one minit that GU didn't have computers doing back-office stuff in 1986 Not according to my sources. There may have been machines thast were no more than somewhat sophisticated calculators being used, but that's not what we're talking about. I ask again: Look at the state of the uni today. Millions have been spent and utterly wasted on the 'project' (dread word) and the various high-level high salary managerial non-academic jobs created around it. Untold - literally - amounts of time has been wasted dealing with (sorry, ignoring) the very real concerns of hundreds of aggrieved and aghast staff, and their hundreds of FoI requests. More staff has had to be diverted to dealing with the volume of FoI requests, but these staff were not replaced, leading to increased workloads for already overworked and stressed others. The uni's responses to the FoI requests make an absolute mockery of the concept. All for what? As is all too obvious, MyCampus is a disaster; not fit for purpose. This fiasco has been hugely to the detriment of the uni's reputation. It was supposed to achieve exactly the opposite. It's not the first time this kind of madness caused by computers has happened at the uni, and it won't be the last. So, tell me: how did a uni founded in 1451, that fostered and sent some of the greatest human minds out into the world, manage before computers? The Senior Management Group at the uni (hugely overpaid non-academic clueless useless wankers who have no idea what a university is) is the biggest bloody threat the uni has ever faced. Manage?? It'd be hilarious if it weren't so eyepoppingly WRONG, and utterly to the detriment of the institution and to education.
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Post by bormes on Oct 13, 2011 11:27:32 GMT -1
So much truth with what you say Westie, computers have dumbed down methodology, common sense, problem solving and have now the Popcorn society. In saying that I still think there is a place for them. Designing systems for the NHS has NOT helped the elderly in care despite millions being spent on computer systems, and if it is not the fault of the computer only the fault of the person using it, where does the computer give compassion, where does the computer remove soil from the patients bed? You don't need computer literacy in the wards for compassion, perhaps more compassion should be back in nursing and the NHS and less computers.
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Post by westender on Oct 13, 2011 11:40:41 GMT -1
So much truth with what you say Westie, computers have dumbed down methodology, common sense, problem solving and have now the Popcorn society. In saying that I still think there is a place for them. I agree. As far back as the ancientest of the ancient Chinese, we have had a need for quick & accurate ways of computing numbers. Hence the abacus - the first computer. We've always had a place for computers; machines that compute. But in recent times, that is not what we're talking about any more. Disaster, ruinous expense, and inefficiency everywhere, thanks to the inhuman, counterintuitive, poorly planned and implemented, unnecessary buggers, taking over from efficient and committed human beings efficiently working human-created systems. Simplistic! - but well said.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2011 22:18:12 GMT -1
So, tell me: how did a uni founded in 1451, that fostered and sent some of the greatest human minds out into the world, manage before computers? The Senior Management Group at the uni (hugely overpaid non-academic clueless useless wankers who have no idea what a university is) is the biggest bloody threat the uni has ever faced. Yeah, pathetic really that they couldn't get MyCampus right. Caused a fair bit of grief to a fair few. But anyways....news reaches me that a group of highly puter literate first years have formed a study group to show the 'administrators' how to improve the system so badly implemented, hahahahahaaaa Better still than that--the wean reports daily how much she's enjoying campus life, in particular the erudition of the lecturers, who use big words she never heard at a Glasgow state school---and also meeting kids from other state schools who have frankly worked their butts off to get there. She's more than thriving---and I'm so grateful that she's been given the opporchancity. Thank you
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Post by westender on Nov 4, 2011 11:57:40 GMT -1
Yeah, pathetic really that they couldn't get MyCampus right. Caused a fair bit of grief to a fair few. But anyways....news reaches me that a group of highly puter literate first years have formed a study group to show the 'administrators' how to improve the system so badly implemented, hahahahahaaaa *sigh* So young.... ;D ;D ;D Excellent, excellent! Enjoy, both of yese.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 21:17:35 GMT -1
I'm enjoying her enjoying it, Westie ;D She has felt a bit under pressure this past couple of months because there's a bunch of loudmouth private school kids giving it the usual superiority entitlement sketch. Talking over everyone else in tutorials, that kind of thing. She's often come home feeling inferior, as if she doesn't deserve to be there. I tell her empty vessels usually make the most noise First term essays just got handed back this week. She's got Bs in every subject while the vast majority of the 'entitled' ones in her classes are languishing in the Cs--- and worse. A bit of a rude awakening for kids who's parents've bought them their Highers... Halle-fecking-lujah, I say. ;D
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Post by ozneil on Dec 3, 2011 21:28:56 GMT -1
Well done the wean!!!
My youngest grandson just finished his high school certificate sweating it out waiting for results to see if high enough for Uni.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 21:50:15 GMT -1
I hope he gets what he's worked for, Oz.
The vast majority of the wean's state school classmates didn't make it into Higher Education. I think many could have if they'd been encouraged more. At Jordanhill, (where I went) the percentage is 80% plus, in Glasgow state schools it's more like 10% or less.
OK, it's not for everyone---but there are dire inequalities of opportunity in Scotland's education system. That probably sounds terribly PC but isn't meant as such. If I'm honest I'd FAR rather subsidise capable young people than waste money on elderly 'students' who've already had several chances and just use endless uni courses to fill their time. They should pay their own fees, IMHO.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 3, 2011 22:44:24 GMT -1
I hope he gets what he's worked for, Oz. The vast majority of the wean's state school classmates didn't make it into Higher Education. I think many could have if they'd been encouraged more. At Jordanhill, (where I went) the percentage is 80% plus, in Glasgow state schools it's more like 10% or less. OK, it's not for everyone---but there are dire inequalities of opportunity in Scotland's education system. That probably sounds terribly PC but isn't meant as such. If I'm honest I'd FAR rather subsidise capable young people than waste money on elderly 'students' who've already had several chances and just use endless uni courses to fill their time. They should pay their own fees, IMHO. Same here, 2of our Grandsons went to selective schools where entry into Uni is high (Jack the youngest being one) One, the eldest, went to an ordinary state high school then on to a "selective college" for last 2 years at high school before Uni. My granddaughter is following him. Kids from ordinary high schools dont usually go to Uni, a lot do of course and a lot go to TAFE (Tech College) Uni here is fee paying. If high enough you will get a HECS loan at low interest. If higher still scholarships. If very bright more than one scholarship which will pay everything. But ya gorra be bloody bright to get more than 1 Scholarship.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2011 0:22:08 GMT -1
Scottish students don't pay tuition fees here, Oz, that's one of the much respected principles of the SNP and one of the reasons they're in power now. However there'll always be those that take advantage of that by knowing how to manipulate the age discrimination laws. We have at Glasgow Uni an adult education department where mature people pay a couple of hundred a year (subsidised by guess who) to while away the odd hour or two. All good. Something for the old dears to do, like learning Mandarin or looking at lovely pictures of the Pyramids or learning how to work Facebook... However, I can't find it in me to say that it's OK that people in their 50s and 60s, no matter how academically smart they think they are, to take up more serious places and thereby deprive a younger person. Give some an inch, they'll claim for a mile.
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