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Post by yonzabam on Mar 16, 2012 19:19:31 GMT -1
This is a long read. A 5 page article from Rolling Stone on the unbelievable corruption that is the biggest of the US 'too big to fail' banks. I've been reading up a lot on this kind of thing since the financial crisis of 2008, so I thought it would just be more of the same, but even my cynical old jaw dropped. There's a coming storm that will make the 1930s Great Depression look like a breeze, and there's much more to it than just the nefarious activities of the likes of BoA. But, the moral degeneration that is so expertly exposed in this article lies at the heart of it all. I don't expect many (if any) replies in this thread. People aren't inclined to click on links, and much of the content will whoosh overhead. But if just a few people read it and learn, it will be worth having flagged it up. www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/bank-of-america-too-crooked-to-fail-20120314
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Post by ozneil on Mar 16, 2012 20:06:42 GMT -1
Have you read this Yonza? www.forbes.com/sites/steveschaefer/2012/03/16/buffetts-5-billion-bank-of-america-bet-keeps-looking-better/Personally I wouldnt trust any bank as far as I could throw it through a brick wall but they are a necessary evil. They have always been the same out for themselves & bugger the hindmost I think you are wrong about a 1930s style depression occurring soon. US market is slowly(not a boom) recovering and although its still the biggest market other disparate markets such as China & India are starting to make their presence felt. Though looking a UKs latest scheme to get people to buy houses you tend to wonder if they have learnt anything
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 20:27:44 GMT -1
I think you might find people here are not as dumb as you seem to believe they are, Yonz, m' dear. I seriously doubt that anything in the article you posted will surprise anyone! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 21:23:42 GMT -1
Have you read this Yonza? www.forbes.com/sites/steveschaefer/2012/03/16/buffetts-5-billion-bank-of-america-bet-keeps-looking-better/Personally I wouldnt trust any bank as far as I could throw it through a brick wall but they are a necessary evil. They have always been the same out for themselves & bugger the hindmost I think you are wrong about a 1930s style depression occurring soon. US market is slowly(not a boom) recovering and although its still the biggest market other disparate markets such as China & India are starting to make their presence felt. Though looking a UKs latest scheme to get people to buy houses you tend to wonder if they have learnt anything Interestingly, Oz, Scotland's trade with China is at all time high. We are also doing serious business with other global partners who find Scotland a good place to invest, partly down to the quality of our workforce. Like yourself I don't believe we're heading for a major depression either. Some are struggling but it's mainly those who're overstretched in the first place---and of course those made unemployed through no fault of their own. We do need to seriously address youth unemployment in particular. Most people aren't struggling to pay for food, housing and bills here in Scotland. Downsizing a bit maybe. People who are earning average money who've been smart enough not to be weighed down by debt just haven't been spending out so much, particularly on cars and household goods and looking for better value for their quid. No bad thing in my book, we've had too much ostentatious spending lately and of course companies are all too willing to rip us off in the process. Well, maybe we've been overly willing to be ripped--like affording expensive stuff is a measure of status? Discuss! It seems to me that a lot of us are paying down previous debts and putting off major purchases until the recently raised VAT (20%) comes down, which I believe it will in the coming months. Maybe even next week
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Post by ozneil on Mar 16, 2012 22:43:18 GMT -1
China has replaced Japan as our main trading partner. I have dealt with 2 Chinese firms. Hard buggers to strilke a deal with but once deal is struck neither firm tried any "smart" moves and stuck to the deal... Both good firms to work with. One was from Hong Kong and the other Shanghai.
Like Scotland we are drawing out collective heads in less being spent on consumer items. Big department stores feeling the pinch and new car sales down. Mind you I think a lot here is to do with our government they are so incompetent & useless that they couldnt find their arse with both hands and a compass. They will be out for another 6-10 years at the next election in 2013. Having said that the government says we are still very short of skilled labour which is holding back our expansion. Personally I believe its their incompetence more than anything else.
We were shielded from the 2008 crash by tighter banking regulations & the rising Asian economy to such an extent we did not go into recession though it still hurt us
Gees 20% VAT ours is 10%, except on food & fuel , & we are moaning like buggery
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 23:51:32 GMT -1
The current 20% vat rate is why I said previously we should be raising the lower tax threshold and allowing people to spend their disposable in whatever way they choose.
Vat/IVA is extremely high in most European countries, some go into the 20%+ plus bracket. In the UKE there would be outcry if VAT was added to your weekly shop but in most of Europe it is.
I'd go as far as to say that many small businesses are gong to the wall because of high VAT rates. If your turnover doesn't exceed the threshold for registration (about 65K) you're paying out 20% on your goods and supplies, including fuel, without the ability to add 20% on to your invoices to customers.
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Post by yonzabam on Mar 17, 2012 4:57:42 GMT -1
I think you might find people here are not as dumb as you seem to believe they are, Yonz, m' dear. I seriously doubt that anything in the article you posted will surprise anyone! ;D Now, where exactly was it that I implied people on here were dumb? A lot of it deals with abstruse financial engineering which most people, including myself, would have a hard time getting their heads around. So, pointing this out is saying people are dumb, is it? Aye, right. I seriously doubt you even read the article!
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Post by ozneil on Mar 17, 2012 6:01:34 GMT -1
Well I have read the article . As my old mum would have said "its cauld kail re-heatit" is that the right phrase?
Most Banks are the same
Bank of America has not yet recovered and is still laying off staff but it is showing signs of recovery.
Read Forbes & other serious financial Journals
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Post by yonzabam on Mar 17, 2012 13:46:23 GMT -1
Well I have read the article . As my old mum would have said "its cauld kail re-heatit" is that the right phrase? Most Banks are the same Bank of America has not yet recovered and is still laying off staff but it is showing signs of recovery. Read Forbes & other serious financial Journals Are you sure you got past the first page? They didn't bother with anything as mundane as keeping the original paperwork for mortgage borrowers. That kind of stuff's for the little lenders. So, when they wanted to foreclose on a property, they'd draw up bogus contracts retrospectively, putting whatever they liked into them and having an army of workers putting fraudulent signatures and dates on them to show to the courts. They also made billions of dollars from simply hitting customers with bogus fees. They also bought a merchant bank by the name of Merrill Lynch which was insolvent, but continuing to trade as if they were solvent by dint of fraudulent accounting. ML didn't have federal protection, so would have been allowed to fail with debts of tens of billions of dollars. BoA does have federal protection, so is bailed out by the taxpayer. It 'moved' all the dodgy 'assets' from ML to BoA, so now the US taxpayer is on the hook for the debt, something described as 'outrageous' by a former regulator who says he wouldn't have allowed it. ML directors continue to pay themselves billions in bonuses, as does BoA, whose staff (mainly directors) were paid $37 billion in bonuses in 2011, despite the company making a loss that year. BoA were responsible for the creation of a huge number of 'toxic' financial instruments made up of collateralised mortgages (CDOs), many of them sub-prime loans to people who were never going to be able to pay back what they'd borrowed. They got this worthless paper rated 'AAA' by bribing the ratings agencies, even though they knew most of the mortgages they contained were worthless. They then offerred this toxic junk to buyers with guarantees of high returns, promising in writing that all the loans had passed due diligence tests and met its high standards. they also promised that, if any of the loans in the pool were defective or in default, they would buy them back. And on top of all that, they were insured. Given the top 'AAA' rating and all the guarantees, these instruments were bought by pension fund managers, foreign banks, unions and private investors etc. It's what brought RBS down. For, when the investors tried to hand back all the delinquent loans, they were met with total non-compliance. They had been lied to and defrauded by racketeers and if they wanted their money back, they would have to go to court to get it. The insurance companies had also been lied to, and many are in the process of suing BoA. One insurer found that 97% of the loans didn't meet the stated underwriting standards. The strange thing is, when BoA are taken to court and the plaintiff wins, they only have to pay pennies in the dollar. The article doesn't explain why that is, but it looks like good business for BoA. Since BoA are 'too big to fail', they will get limitless government support in perpetuity, an undead zombie bank, continually looting the taxpayers and anyone else they can get their hands on. Anyone who finds that the pension pot they've been paying into for half their lives isn't as full as they thought it would be can find comfort in the fact that some of the money went to pay for the bonuses of BoA directors. And that applies to UK pensions, as well as US ones.
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Post by peony on Mar 17, 2012 17:20:44 GMT -1
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Post by yonzabam on Mar 17, 2012 18:43:57 GMT -1
Just wait until you see the value of the dollar start to fall alarmingly for a long enough period, then stock up on dried and canned food, vegetable oils, salt, toilet paper, soap etc. Better safe than sorry, and even if the worst doesn't happen, you'll just end up with a well stocked larder. There are lots of 'preppers' out there, preparing for Armageddon. Many of them are obsessed with their prepping and forget there's a here and now to be lived in. I've been on prepper websites and to read the discussions, you'd think they're expecting a 'Mad Max' future. They talk about how to grow your own veg, how much ammo to have, the best electric generators, water distillation equipment etc. As if electricity and water are going to stop being supplied because of a global depression. They are also obsessed with gold and silver, the received wisdom being that dollars are going to be worthless, so change it into precious metals while you can. I'd rather buy food. You can't eat gold.
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Post by ozneil on Mar 17, 2012 19:31:15 GMT -1
Yes Yonza I read the whole thing its a re-hash of known things. He is describing many banks on the subprime mortage scheme. It was a complete scam, provided real estate continued to escalate at an unsustainable rate it worked but it didnt it collapsed , B ofA werent the only ones not to keep proper records. Smaller banks went to the wall. lots of Pension funds, Councils and insurance companies lost a lot of money. Many astute people refused to touch it . The returns looked too good to be true.
The way the loans were passed around was ridiculous. A bank then could buy a parcel of loans at a discounted price then split up the bundles and on sell them . The paper work got extremely complicated and in lots of cases wasnt even kept properly, In reality the mortgagee didnt even know who owned his mortgage & the mortgager had no idea what he owned. It made some people very rich but most people involved lost a lot
The whole financial industry is sus since Jesus & his heavies chucked the bankers out the temple
If you look at history was another South Sea Bubble or if you like pyramid selling
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Post by ozneil on Mar 17, 2012 19:47:44 GMT -1
[ Just wait until you see the value of the dollar start to fall alarmingly for a long enough period, then stock up on dried and canned food, vegetable oils, salt, toilet paper, soap etc. Better safe than sorry, and even if the worst doesn't happen, you'll just end up with a well stocked larder. There are lots of 'preppers' out there, preparing for Armageddon. Many of them are obsessed with their prepping and forget there's a here and now to be lived in. I've been on prepper websites and to read the discussions, you'd think they're expecting a 'Mad Max' future. They talk about how to grow your own veg, how much ammo to have, the best electric generators, water distillation equipment etc. As if electricity and water are going to stop being supplied because of a global depression. They are also obsessed with gold and silver, the received wisdom being that dollars are going to be worthless, so change it into precious metals while you can. I'd rather buy food. You can't eat gold. I assume you are referring to Europe & perhaps US. Asia is a completely different kettle of fish and US is showing signs of a slow recovery. If you look at the stock market over the years in times of uncertainty people buy precious metals as a hedge. The US$, £stg, € have all dropped substantially against gold,. I think UK was very wise not to join the € zone
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 19:51:43 GMT -1
I think you might find people here are not as dumb as you seem to believe they are, Yonz, m' dear. I seriously doubt that anything in the article you posted will surprise anyone! ;D Now, where exactly was it that I implied people on here were dumb? A lot of it deals with abstruse financial engineering which most people, including myself, would have a hard time getting their heads around. So, pointing this out is saying people are dumb, is it? Aye, right. I seriously doubt you even read the article! I did as it happens! And nothing in it surprised me. It's basically just a detailed case history of the subprime mortgage scam that anyone with an interest in current affairs has known about for several years now. It's quite an angry piece and rightly so. But news it ain't. I feel very sorry for people who've paid into pension pots all their lives to find the value so diminished. We took an endowment mortgage 20 odd years ago and of course with the downturn it's unlikely the fund will quite match the mortgage when it's due. But we were warned at the time that the market can go up as well as down and we took that gamble as did everyone who invested in pensions. It was always obvious that people taking 100 or 125% mortgages, especially self-certificated ones, might be sailing close to the wind. And the bankers took full advantage of that stupidity, bstrds that they are. In England the situation's far worse than in Scotland with so many finding themselves in negative equity--which has slowed the housing market to a virtual standstill there. What is the point of owning a home you can't afford the repayments on if you're buying everyday groceries and paying utility bills on a credit card? So tits-up--and so stressful I'd imagine. I suppose I just come from a very thrawn, thrifty pair of working class families. If you didn't have the money to pay for a thing, you either saved up or went without. But call me old-fashioned.
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Post by ozneil on Mar 17, 2012 20:01:53 GMT -1
I must admit I buy everything I need on a credit card. Where else can I get a 55 day interest free loan. The trick is to pay it off every month and I use the "Rewards" scheme to pay credit card fees... Cant get bloody tighter than that!!!! You would never guess I had Scottish ancestory PS Oh yes I can get bloody tighter We run 2 credit cards with payment dates a fortnight apart to maximise length of credit period!@!!! .. Now that is being tight PPS And we grow our own cherry tomatoes!!
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