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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 0:32:34 GMT -1
Apologies Rolo, I have twice tried to write detailed replies to your post only to have the website crash on me as they neared completion. Pressure of work precludes me from re composing them but I'll give a short answer to the point of lies being told. As I said earlier in this thread there were undoubtedly exaggerations, bluffs and lies on both sides during this campaign, that's politics for you. On many of the issues there are conflicting views given by supposed experts, some must be wrong but which ones? There was sufficient doubt for example of the longevity of the oil reserves to leave room for reasonable caution on the issue. You highlight what you say is Better Together lies and who knows, you may be correct on some of them. What would you say to Alex Salmond's assertion that he would fail to pay Scotland's share of the national debt if he wasn't allowed a formal currency union? Utter and complete bluff I say or lies if you want to be harsh. Such a move would have reduced Scotland's credit rating to junk status and the former economist First Minister was never going to allow that to happen.And then there is lying by omission. We'll retain the pound anyway, said Mr Salmond, in the event of being denied a formal currency union. What he didn't mention is that any other modern country taking this option has had to establish a large currency reserve to stabilise their economy. According to Mark Carney, in Scotland's case this would have run into billions of pounds. I didn't hear any mention of that when Alex Salmond was making his pronouncements after being put under pressure over the currency issue. Why did he even respond in the fashion he did when the Tory's, Labour and Lib Dems ruled out a currency union? Was it because he didn't believe it would happen? His responses didn't sound like someone who saw no threat from this pronouncement, he made hasty statements which could be construed as lies. There is no moral high ground to be had here, both sides said what they thought they had to to win the day. Reprehensible for sure but a harsh political fact. I've addressed the issues we're having re Proboards on another thread. I'm sorry you've had some difficulties in posting your most fulsome responses. I'm not sure in whose mind there was 'sufficient doubt over the longevity of the oil reserves'? Maybe Sir Ian Wood's? What could he POSSIBLY have to gain from misleading us, I wonder? Next up, you say: " What would you say to Alex Salmond's assertion that he would fail to pay Scotland's share of the national debt if he wasn't allowed a formal currency union? Utter and complete bluff I say or lies if you want to be harsh. Such a move would have reduced Scotland's credit rating to junk status and the former economist First Minister was never going to allow that to happen."Again, that darned Alexsammin, pesky varmint that he is. SCOTLAND said from the first that we'd willingly take on our share of the national debt. It was Westmonster who gave it brinksmanship in pretending they'd not agree to a currency union. Had they simply agreed to reasonable negotiation pre the vote, the debt issue would have been solved at a stroke. But of course they didn't wake up to the real possibility of indy because they believed all along it was just some whim of a few discontented Scots. Is this a good point to remind NO voters that the UKE's credit rating was revised downwards from AAA? Or is that forgotten now, somehow? Regarding the currency reserve question: you are correct in that we would have needed to borrow substantially in the first few years of independence. I don't believe that's been denied? However, would you care to inform us how difficult--or not--it might have been to a) borrow and b) pay the interest on such loans, given our VERY substantial oil reserves, our GDP and the FACT that our deficit in recent years has been way WAY less than the UKE's? Ah. Scotland. The only oil-rich country ever, in the history of the world, to get poorer, eh? That you refuse to admit, Demo, that Salmond recognised the Tory's (your quote), Labour and the Libdems 'threat' to block currency union as being a complete and total bluff, is not to your credit. Again, you seem to adhere to the view that 'our masters' down south have 'spoken' and therefore we should genuflect in gratitude for their superior knowledge and authority? Do you REALLY still not get that the establishment colluded to extinguish Scottish independence through outright lies? Do you honestly, really, in your heart of hearts, call that a victory or are you just making excuses now for voting NO, when only a week later, 'promises' are being broken, Westminster goalposts are shifting and ultimately, we in Scotland are about to be totally and utterly f8cked over? Nice work.
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Post by ozneil on Oct 1, 2014 2:02:56 GMT -1
Rolo Rote
Very good and also to remind them it went back up to AAA but depends on who's index you use.
and again
You forgot Oz we have oodles of oil, gas, coal and other minerals but we got poorer due to 6 years of a "socialist" government incompetent mismanagement, mmmmm back to metaphors dealing with houses of ill-repute and seductions
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 18:43:45 GMT -1
I think, lovely Oz, before we get to considering Australian matters, we are awaiting a response from Democrat over the various salient points raised here in the last couple of days.
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Post by ozneil on Oct 2, 2014 19:59:19 GMT -1
I think, lovely Oz, before we get to considering Australian matters, we are awaiting a response from Democrat over the various salient points raised here in the last couple of days. True but I think you may turn blue if you hold breath waiting Oz is heading ok now we have adults back in charge I would be more worried about next UK election in that the minor parties you mentioned may fragment your vote so letting labour in again. The only way to get anything out of Westminster is to smash the labour vote in Scotland make the UK government worried about remaining in power by getting rid of labour MPs We have a solid voting block in Senate of Independents and minor parties so much so that both major political parties have to gain their favour to get legislation through. Think SNP having 40 seats in commons parties would have to l***** your ****e to get legislation through . Of course part of the deal to vote with them would be getting things you need in Scotland. To my mind I would be trying for Federal like Germany rather that full independence ... Ok so its a compromise but best/worst of both worlds. Perhaps UK split into 4 or 5 separate states.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 21:56:46 GMT -1
Thanks Oz. But the pro-indy alliance is way ahead of you I'm sure Democrat must be helluva busy elsewhere or he/she would have responded to this ongoing discussion this week. I'm helluva patient, me.
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Post by bormes on Oct 3, 2014 14:55:56 GMT -1
I used to be very patient I had to be as you only have one chance at a shot, however now at my age I need Yoga to breathe properly, when back in the day I could hold my breath for an eternity, well it seemed like it. Sort of slow motion. Now, my excitement is from thinking Rangers might, just might get back up to the Premier slot!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 17:57:42 GMT -1
I used to be very patient I had to be as you only have one chance at a shot, however now at my age I need Yoga to breathe properly, when back in the day I could hold my breath for an eternity, well it seemed like it. Sort of slow motion. Now, my excitement is from thinking Rangers might, just might get back up to the Premier slot!! Well, I wish you and your team excitement for the coming season and hope all fans BEHAVE! Meanwhile, you can see I've not expired thus far from holding my breath, waiting for a response from Democrat Seems a pity to have had a new, highly erudite member helicoptering in to an ongoing thread who, when fairly and reasonably challenged on said points, seems to have disappeared like snow off a dyke Dead patient me, but.
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Post by notanimby on Oct 4, 2014 18:56:51 GMT -1
I used to be very patient I had to be as you only have one chance at a shot, however now at my age I need Yoga to breathe properly, when back in the day I could hold my breath for an eternity, well it seemed like it. Sort of slow motion. Now, my excitement is from thinking Rangers might, just might get back up to the Premier slot!! Well, I wish you and your team excitement for the coming season and hope all fans BEHAVE! Meanwhile, you can see I've not expired thus far from holding my breath, waiting for a response from Democrat Seems a pity to have had a new, highly erudite member helicoptering in to an ongoing thread who, when fairly and reasonably challenged on said points, seems to have disappeared like snow off a dyke Dead patient me, but. Hmmmmmmmmm - scratches chin in a tv detective manner
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 18:13:49 GMT -1
OK, everyone, given that Democrat's felt unable thus far to respond to any of the, I think, cogent replies to his assertions, I'm thinking it's probably good to consign this very long-running thread to history.
I'm opening a whole new Politics thread about where we, in Scotland, are now, post Indy-ref.
All opinions and topics welcome!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 23:40:45 GMT -1
Probably comes as a surprise to precisely no-one that the affectedly erudite *Democrat* has fucked right off Sadly, he/she has been strangely unable to respond to the many salient, cogent points offered on the indyref topic. Quelle surprise! Demo, clearly, didn't stumble upon our wee forum, but *arrived* here, after the vote, via someone who wanted to make a point by proxy. But well played, everyone, for giving Demo the benefit of the doubt and responding to his/her contributions I'm closing this here YES DECLARATION thread now, it's run its course. Personally I'd love to hear Demo's views on the ramifications of his NO vote but I'm not gonna hold my breath. He and his ilk are all about self interest. The economic case not made, and all that. It's too risky, and all that. We'd rather just vote NO and have our imperial masters tell us what to do, and all that. Demo pretends to understand economic strategy when in actual fact he probably formed his view over some hellish Marks and Spencer catered dinner party where his lawyer and financial adviser friends told him how to vote, while the wives went off discussing curtain fabric and how Dobbies has gone *so* downhill, as the men fired up their cheap cigars. One must feel sorry for poor people, but you know, one concludes it's of their own making. How dare they aspire to owning anything? They can't even speak proper English, like me! For shame.
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