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Post by peony on Oct 16, 2013 17:21:29 GMT -1
Norway also declined to join the EU, didn't they? Wise, wise move.
This has been so interesting to watch and read the debates over independence. I remember the first I read about it was on First Foot.
It's an interesting change from out own clown car show we call congress.
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Post by bormes on Oct 16, 2013 18:43:28 GMT -1
Peony, Over a hundred and forty countries have had Independence since the end of WW2 and not ONE has ever asked to go back to the host country. Norway has over 400 BILLION in an oil fund and Scotland who has oil and gas has food banks, think on that those who wish to stay under English rule.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 19:13:59 GMT -1
Norway also declined to join the EU, didn't they? Wise, wise move. This has been so interesting to watch and read the debates over independence. I remember the first I read about it was on First Foot. It's an interesting change from out own clown car show we call congress. You're correct, Peony, Norway is not a fully fledged member of the EU. However they ARE members of the European trading union, which is the best possible place for an independent Scotland too. (IMV) The single most important thing we have to decide come September 2014 is the principle: do we wish to be independent? After that YES vote, WE as a country will decide how to best proceed, in the best interests of the Scottish people.The Unionist parties (Tories, LibDem and yes, even the Labour party) are playing the FEAR card, constantly telling us that Scotland's too wee, too feart and too dependent on English taxes to make a go of things. All I'd ask is for everyone to talk to friends, families, neighbours and be in command of the FACTS. Informed debate, not cowering under a welter of scaremongering. As ever, ask yourselves why the three Unionist parties are SO keen that Scotland doesn't vote for independence, if we're truly the burden they make us out to be.
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Post by notanimby on Oct 16, 2013 19:18:59 GMT -1
Norway also declined to join the EU, didn't they? Wise, wise move. This has been so interesting to watch and read the debates over independence. I remember the first I read about it was on First Foot. It's an interesting change from out own clown car show we call congress. You're correct, Peony, Norway is not a fully fledged member of the EU. However they ARE members of the European trading union, which is the best possible place for an independent Scotland too. (IMV) The single most important thing we have to decide come September 2014 is the principle: do we wish to be independent? After that YES vote, WE as a country will decide how to best proceed, in the best interests of the Scottish people.The Unionist parties (Tories, LibDem and yes, even the Labour party) are playing the FEAR card, constantly telling us that Scotland's too wee, too feart and too dependent on English taxes to make a go of things. All I'd ask is for everyone to talk to friends, families, neighbours and be in command of the FACTS. Informed debate, not cowering under a welter of scaremongering. As ever, ask yourselves why the three Unionist parties are SO keen that Scotland doesn't vote for independence, if we're truly the burden they make us out to be. But a little known fact about Norway and the EU is that they pay in the same amount as if they were a full member, plus they have to abide by all EU directives, so they can trade with EU They have to do all this and not have any MEP representation too.
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Post by notanimby on Oct 16, 2013 19:21:02 GMT -1
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 19:27:16 GMT -1
we have a "Futures Fund" which Labour tried to borrow against to try and cover up their economic bungling. It is funded by minerals royalties. I believe we had one of them too, except it was called 'Everyone's Pension Fund' (except gold-plated public service ones...) Scotland is bucking the economic trend again this quarter. ;D More people in employment, and companies are starting to see real growth, especially those in the global export market. That said, there are truly TERRIBLE stories emerging about those who're unable to work through sickness or disability via the bedroom tax. People on a fixed income having to pay more to rent their social housing if they have a spare bedroom. Yet no alternative rentals as one bedroom homes are practically non-existent. Add to that, working people on lower than average wage are now worse off than their equivalents on welfare. The answer is not necessarily to lower benefits but for all employers to pay a living wage. Which currently, in Scotland, is set at £7.50 per hour.
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Post by ozneil on Oct 16, 2013 19:39:41 GMT -1
They say you are too small ......... Balls. NZ did it with less than 2 million population, now 4.4 million still a smaller population than you are doing well. They do not have EU to back them up only a free trade agreement with us In 86 years they have never lost a rugby game to Scotland.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 19:55:59 GMT -1
Correct, Oz. ;D
The worst lie of all that's being peddled by the Unionist parties is that Scotland is dependent on English taxes.
However, the UK government's OWN FIGURES prove that the opposite is true. The fact is that Scotland pays more per annum into the UK treasury than it receives back. And per capita, LONDON is more subsidised than anywhere else in the UKE.
There's also a great deal of disquiet/jealousy/ignorance coming out of England re how Scotland chooses to spend its money: viz, in particular on free higher education ( by way of subsidised tuition fees), free prescriptions for all (not means-tested) and free personal care for the elderly.
These principles are IMPORTANT to us and they are how we CHOOSE to spend our taxes. England chooses to spend theirs differently but vast swathes of their population STILL believe-- in their total ignorance-- that THEY are somehow paying for OUR choices.
We also must remember that, yes, while the Scots owe roughly 10% of the national debt, the Scottish people ALSO own roughly 10% of all UKE assets. A fact conveniently brushed under the carpet by the Unionist parties.
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Post by ozneil on Nov 27, 2013 22:01:38 GMT -1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 1:51:29 GMT -1
OZ, OZ, OZ <head in hands> What part of this are you just not getting? ;D Our government has flung down an almighty gauntlet with the White Paper. It challenges the NO campaign AND the Westminster govt to counter our government's vision for our future and to SET FORTH their own plans for Scotland remaining in the Union. That they're increasingly reluctant to do just that speaks volumes. You may well be considered a Scot via ancestry (and an honorary Scot on this here forum!) but you don't have a referendum vote. If you did though, which way would you vote?
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Post by ozneil on Nov 28, 2013 2:10:28 GMT -1
Hi . I put both these snippets in "without prejudice" that is what was reported on SBS news. In other words I linked what was reported. I offer no thoughts or opinions on the matter. I dont know enough. I do not know enough about the major issues on the referendum to offer an opinion one way or the other. My heart says go for it, my brain says ca'canny but I dont know enough to form a definite opinion I know that my Scottish friends, whose values I respect, are split and I find the whole thing, as foreigner, enthralling. PS On Mature reflection Only thing I can say positively is that I think my ancestors and I made the right decision in coming to Oz. It is a very different country from Scotland and suits me and my family very well. I am not saying its better than Scotland only different and certainly it doesnt suit everyone
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 3:05:24 GMT -1
Ok let's put you down as an honorary 'undecided' ;D You're in good company, Oz, about a third of the population here, likewise, are weighing up the odds. Very far from daft. Re migration to Aus. Frankly I couldn't name any family I know who hasn't a rellie migrate to either there, NZ, Canada or the US. And all of which, I believe, are independent countries who get the government they vote for, unlike Scotland. I think people can generally be trusted to do the best thing by themselves and their families. For me, that's staying in Scotland. But if I were to migrate, it'd be to Aus. Fantastic country, great people, relatively classless society and the light!....the light...I miss it yet..
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Post by ozneil on Nov 28, 2013 21:01:20 GMT -1
But if I were to migrate, it'd be to Aus. Fantastic country, great people, relatively classless society and the light!....the light...I miss it yet.. For me it was the smell of the eucalypts. When I got terribly homesick and when in Edinburgh I went to Botanic gardens Australia green house just for the smell. I didnt know Kibble house existed. They say you can smell the eucalypts for days when approaching Australia by boat. I used to go down to Australian Trade Centre in Jamaica Street on Wednesdays to read our papers. Spent ages plucking up courage to suggest to Mrs Oz we should give Oz a whirl. She is very glad I did.
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Post by bormes on Nov 28, 2013 21:41:19 GMT -1
Too much Sun for me OZ, I mean who would want fabulous beaches sun beer a fairer society rotten footballers and a bit of freedom to go shooting, no terrible really, I much prefer the rain, sleet and snow here in the summer and the tight controls on EVERYTHING and the Political Correctness and all the ethnic lovely people who mix and enjoy our culture showing it respect and no corruption with our Politicians. How can you not want to come back here? Lol.
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Post by ozneil on Nov 29, 2013 2:40:00 GMT -1
Too much Sun for me OZ, I mean who would want fabulous beaches sun beer a fairer society rotten footballers and a bit of freedom to go shooting, no terrible really, I much prefer the rain, sleet and snow here in the summer and the tight controls on EVERYTHING and the Political Correctness and all the ethnic lovely people who mix and enjoy our culture showing it respect and no corruption with our Politicians. How can you not want to come back here? Lol. Not sure if its the sun or the beaches or the surf but something seems to shrink young ladies clothes to two narrow strips and it makes them tired , they lie for hours on the beaches resting. As for bad footie players may I remind you 21-15 last weekend One of our incorruptible pollies, Labour of course, is up on 175 charges of fraud, trial starts soon. Another 2 labour MPs have been found corrupt. Guy I know goes pig shooting he uses a Martini-Henry, rebored and using cordite instead of black powder. He wants the pig to know its been shot. Generally you ask permission to shoot pigs, really to let the land owner know you are there.
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