Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2013 19:17:06 GMT -1
Pretty grim news for many this week with the news of 800+ job losses on the Clyde. Also feel for those who'll be out of work after the BAE Portsmouth yard closes for good. What's REALLY odd is the way this is being treated in the media and Westminster government. In Tory, LibDem and Labour quarters they're saying that should we vote for independence even those few military contracts we have for the next few years will be discontinued--as 'allegedly' the UKE will not allow RN ships to be built outwith the UKE.  BEJASUS! How DARE they try this scummy attempt at blackmail--for political ends. The Clyde's proud history of shipbuilding WILL NOT end any time soon. All our work doesn't HAVE to come from the RN, we'll compete in the global market and quality will out, as it always does. Johann Lamont and her sheep were utterly pathetic at FM Question Time today. Taking the Westminster line rather than giving it feisty on behalf of one of Scotland's finest industries. Yet there will be some that are cowered by the blackmail attempt and run scared of the YES vote. You know what though, I think they'll be in the minority come September 19th 2014...  |
|
|
|
Post by ozneil on Nov 7, 2013 19:25:13 GMT -1
You will have an uphill battle to get any RAN ships after the submarine fiasco.  Good luck anyway |
|
|
|
Post by notanimby on Nov 7, 2013 20:22:05 GMT -1
You will have an uphill battle to get any RAN ships after the submarine fiasco. Good luck anyway Have the helicopter carriers the spaniards built/are building for you been completed yet. I believe you've bought warships from Germany I think too recently, is hat the case? |
|
|
|
Post by ozneil on Nov 7, 2013 20:43:02 GMT -1
You will have an uphill battle to get any RAN ships after the submarine fiasco. Good luck anyway Have the helicopter carriers the spaniards built/are building for you been completed yet. I believe you've bought warships from Germany I think too recently, is hat the case? Not sure where Spanish ships are Hulls being built in Spain Superstructure etc being done here, Dont think we are buying any German could be though . I know we looked at their subs but decided to build our own |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2013 20:50:10 GMT -1
You will have an uphill battle to get any RAN ships after the submarine fiasco. Good luck anyway Frankly, Oz, there are thousands of ships built year on year and guess what---they're not all Navy vessels. ;D A fact that seems to have escaped those who continue to call us too wee, too stupid and too incompetent to run Scotland as a thriving independent country. We have SERIOUS talent and expertise in so many areas: industrial, manufacturing, energy provision, scientific, academic, you name it. Plus on the arts and music scene we punch so far above our weight it's dizzying.  It makes us laugh out loud, honestly, that the Scots are portrayed by Westminster as pathetic, useless, dependent subsidy-junkie victims. My sincere advice to anyone kow-towing that line would be to never, ever underestimate the Scottish people.
|
|
|
|
Post by ozneil on Nov 7, 2013 22:28:18 GMT -1
looking at it from our point of view. Most of our ships come from Asia or we build here. Warships are about the only ones from Europe or US. We have 1 or 2 ex RN ships, dont know where they were built.
|
|
|
|
Post by notanimby on Nov 7, 2013 22:48:37 GMT -1
looking at it from our point of view. Most of our ships come from Asia or we build here. Warships are about the only ones from Europe or US. We have 1 or 2 ex RN ships, dont know where they were built. The unionists like to play the patriotic card when talking about defence spending, especially on ships, they only by warships made in the UK, this is complete pish HMS endurance was built in Scandinavia, Denmark I think It's replacement HMS protector was built in Norway, not only that, its leased too All the RAF transport planes are built in the states, the latest is a airbus built in Europe The next gen fights, for the two white elephant aircraft carriers will use yank f-35s The RAF AEWs are retired yank E-3s The army buys armoured cars from USA, Sweden, , Austria They buy arms from Canada, Germany, Sweden, USA, Austria |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2013 23:15:26 GMT -1
looking at it from our point of view. Most of our ships come from Asia or we build here. Warships are about the only ones from Europe or US. We have 1 or 2 ex RN ships, dont know where they were built. The unionists like to play the patriotic card when talking about defence spending, especially on ships, they only by warships made in the UK, this is complete pish Hell yeah! Deputy FM Nicola Sturgeon proved beyond doubt today at FM's questions that the Westminster government ROUTINELY contracts not only ships but other categories of 'defence' hardware out to whatever country they're arse-licking at any particular time. You can (just about) excuse the hideous Tory/LibDem coalition for using this whole shebang to score political points. But LABOUR? For fecking shame. They're COMPLICIT in this sorry attempt to blackmail the Scots to vote against independence. Well, they continue to show themselves up. Like they think the Scottish people haven't NOTICED they're self-seeking, party-whipped, pathetic excuses for politicians, who put their OWN interests before that of their constituents. For all their so called smart media analysts, their spin docs, their obfuscation.........they really are dumb. And SO dumb they think we don't know it! Christ, if it wasn't so tragic, it'd be hilarious. |
|
|
|
Post by notanimby on Nov 7, 2013 23:18:05 GMT -1
The unionists like to play the patriotic card when talking about defence spending, especially on ships, they only by warships made in the UK, this is complete pish Hell yeah! Deputy FM Nicola Sturgeon proved beyond doubt today at FM's questions that the Westminster government ROUTINELY contracts not only ships but other categories of 'defence' hardware out to whatever country they're arse-licking at any particular time. You can (just about) excuse the hideous Tory/LibDem coalition for using this whole shebang to score political points. But LABOUR? For fecking shame. They're COMPLICIT in this sorry attempt to blackmail the Scots to vote against independence. Well, they continue to show themselves up. Like they think the Scottish people haven't NOTICED they're self-seeking, party-whipped, pathetic excuses for politicians, who put their OWN interests before that of their constituents. For all their so called smart media analysts, their spin docs, their obfuscation.........they really are dumb. And SO dumb they think we don't know it! Christ, if it wasn't so tragic, it'd be hilarious. Ian Davidson MP -another erse who proves that a donkey can win for LIEBOOR as all you need to do is pin a red rosette on it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2013 18:55:32 GMT -1
I'm a former Labour voter, Nota, and what's MOST gutting about them now is that they're all toeing the party line and sounding more like the Tories than the Tories do. I think their Scottish MP's and MSP's now need to get bolshy and to speak out against the Unionist policy. If they don't they risk losing a huge percentage of their Scottish vote. It's already becoming clear they're putting self-interest before the needs and wishes of their constituents. Above all we need GOOD candidates across all the parties to take Scotland forward after the YES vote. No more donkeys elected on a Union ticket |
|
|
|
Post by bormes on Nov 8, 2013 20:06:14 GMT -1
If the vote went against them, I wonder how many like Lamont etc., would actually try to stand in a new Scottish labour.
Probably all of them as they being politicians have such a brass neck.
|
|
|
|
Post by ozneil on Nov 8, 2013 20:09:15 GMT -1
Well said Rolo
I think the days on 1920s labour mentality are long gone but the Union Hack MPs here still adhere to them and fight battles in a "class war" that no longer exists.
I think the Western World is very slowly moving to the right as people get more education and higher expectations. Whilst the labour party MUST look after the needs of the people they have to realise that these needs are changing and they must change with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by notanimby on Nov 8, 2013 20:16:17 GMT -1
I'm a former Labour voter, Nota, and what's MOST gutting about them now is that they're all toeing the party line and sounding more like the Tories than the Tories do. I think their Scottish MP's and MSP's now need to get bolshy and to speak out against the Unionist policy. If they don't they risk losing a huge percentage of their Scottish vote. It's already becoming clear they're putting self-interest before the needs and wishes of their constituents. Above all we need GOOD candidates across all the parties to take Scotland forward after the YES vote. No more donkeys elected on a Union ticket Same here rolo. My granda was a labour provost and councillor, in the days before councillors were "salaried" or had "expenses" Everyone I knew growing up was a labour supporter, but they were voting for people just like them Our MP was Norman Buchan, my gran thought the sun shone oot his erse. When port glasgow had a boundary change and became a constituency with greenock, we got directly labour MP instead. I always remember my grannie telling me, the new guy, dick mabon was a stuck up erse. Imagine being allied Jesse and standing as an MP in Greenock, so much so he used his middle name Dick instead. And he was a complete dick. He was the fifth member of the SDP and at the next election stood for the SDP, saying the locals loved him, he came fifth. I only remember meeting him the once, he lived up to his middle name. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2013 20:45:02 GMT -1
Well said Rolo I think the days on 1920s labour mentality are long gone but the Union Hack MPs here still adhere to them and fight battles in a "class war" that no longer exists. I think the Western World is very slowly moving to the right as people get more education and higher expectations. Whilst the labour party MUST look after the needs of the people they have to realise that these needs are changing and they must change with it. Agree with you up to a point, Oz. There's still an element of 'class war' going on here but personally I'm not sure if those 'class divides' still exist in the same way as they did in the last century. The way I see it there's an 'upper' class, the Untouchables, if you will. And then there's everyone else. I don't agree though, that the Western world's moving to the right. Most of Europe is social democrat, as is Scotland (broadly speaking, slightly left of centre politics). The US though is terrified of any mention of socialism, granted. The more uneducated, knee-jerk populace seem to prefer outright fascism, but that's their problem, not ours  Last week in Scotland we got a glimpse of post-war Union politics, in the Grangemouth refinery debacle. Unite made a HUGE mistake in trying to 'call' the scenario and eventually had to make a very public climb-down. It was like something out of the 60s---sure unions have a part to play in promoting workers' rights, but they're so removed from their membership now they forgot to remember the interests of those they purport to represent. As I see it, modern Scotland doesn't WANT to revert to some three-tier class system. I believe the vast majority of us want a more equitable way forward, where everyone contributes according to their income and those in need are taken care of. |
|
|
|
Post by ozneil on Nov 8, 2013 21:16:39 GMT -1
There is where we disagree prob mostly in woed meanings not thoughts
Dont you think your old "working Class" is becoming more "middle class" with better education and higher aspirations? Most not all of course.
It is hard for me because this is a virtually classless society (one Scots Friend say aye ..nae class)
Im not talking party names your social democrats are now further to the right. They have won their greatest battles against greedy capitalists and are now representing a better off populace and donthave the samebasic struggles.
They have realised pure socialism doesnt work and have amended their aims accordingly.
|
|
