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Post by ozneil on Nov 8, 2013 22:12:50 GMT -1
Thinking more deeply about it! I would luv to see SNP moving a Tad more to the right to encourage business while not forgetting your compassion. You should send someone out here very soon to see how we work it. Not one of your chiefs but a couple of the indians. not a parliamentary delegation, who should visit several cities say Brisbane Sydney and Melbourne to see & hear how the ordinary folk get on with a more right leaning government. . They would be pleasantly surprised. Its not a bad model to follow. PS We are totally differnt from your Labour & Tory parties
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2013 22:34:05 GMT -1
What struck me most about Australia was the relative classlessness. And Scotland's looking a lot more like that now.
But no, I don't agree we in Scotland should move any further right than our current left-of-centre position.
SNP already encourages business--and ambition--but in a measured way, in that outright greedy capitalism, with tax evasion, exploiting the workforce (as in paying minimum wage and zero hours contracts), is just not acceptable to us.
We're WELL ready to do business globally. But at the same time recognising that NOBODY in Scotland should be asked to work for £5 an hour or less.
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Post by ozneil on Nov 8, 2013 22:37:04 GMT -1
What struck me most about Australia was the relative classlessness. And Scotland's looking a lot more like that now. But no, I don't agree we in Scotland should move any further right than our current left-of-centre position. SNP already encourages business--and ambition-- but in a measured way, in that outright greedy capitalism, with tax evasion, exploiting the workforce (as in paying minimum wage and zero hours contracts), is just not acceptable to us. We're WELL ready to do business globally. But at the same time recognising that NOBODY in Scotland should be asked to work for £5 an hour or less. That means red tape usually administer by public servants wity no business acumen===== disaster.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2013 22:57:15 GMT -1
Totally get your drift there, Oz, believe me. It's certainly historically true that civil servants in Scotland and in the wider UKE could be accused of not exactly delivering an efficient service a lot of the time. So given we agree on that, and that generally City Councils are the worst proponents (would anyone here disagree?) I do sense a breakdown of the 'old guard' in that sense. What I would say is that in Scotland we're seeing a new breed of young person: smart, educated,committed and not necessarily ready to leave in search of career advancement. What I'm seeing more and more is the "Can-Do" mentality. And the confidence to challenge how things have always been done. It's bloody refreshing, Oz. ;D We've changed SO much as a people since you were last here.
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Post by ozneil on Nov 8, 2013 23:20:56 GMT -1
Thats great.. You got to give your entrepreneurs elbow room,, dont hamstring them with red tape. Most , but by no means all, are decent people trying to make a buck and prepared to take chances to do it. I know I was and I didnt have any union people bugging me just bloody public servants. who would have trouble finding their own arses with a piece of red tape leading to it..
My UK friends say I had it easy by comparison
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Post by bormes on Nov 9, 2013 0:36:13 GMT -1
Have to agree I would like many of the OZ rules and regs in our country, not the UK, our country, Scotland.
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Post by notanimby on Nov 9, 2013 10:26:57 GMT -1
There is where we disagree prob mostly in woed meanings not thoughts Dont you think your old "working Class" is becoming more "middle class" with better education and higher aspirations? Most not all of course. It is hard for me because this is a virtually classless society (one Scots Friend say aye ..nae class) Im not talking party names your social democrats are now further to the right. They have won their greatest battles against greedy capitalists and are now representing a better off populace and donthave the samebasic struggles. They have realised pure socialism doesnt work and have amended their aims accordingly. There has never been "pure socialism" in the UK, or any other country for that matter. To say that is doesn't work is a bit daft, given that there's no evidence to prove that whatsoever. Now I would suggest that you start off by reading some kosher books on the subject, maybe Marx and Engels or slightly more historical, the works of Thomas Paine. Now can you point me in the direction of a country that has tried "pure socialism" and has failed - I bet you can't. Please bear in mind the USSR, PRC, Cuba etc are not and never have been examples of "pure socialism" no matter what.
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Post by bormes on Nov 9, 2013 10:51:51 GMT -1
Pure socialism is a pipe dream an utopia for people who can not understand the reality that people are all different, with greed love good bad mixed all through so to suggest there has never been a pure socialist state is true but it is also true it will never happen just like we will never have a fully capitalist system too.
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Post by ozneil on Nov 9, 2013 20:08:33 GMT -1
There is where we disagree prob mostly in woed meanings not thoughts Dont you think your old "working Class" is becoming more "middle class" with better education and higher aspirations? Most not all of course. It is hard for me because this is a virtually classless society (one Scots Friend say aye ..nae class) Im not talking party names your social democrats are now further to the right. They have won their greatest battles against greedy capitalists and are now representing a better off populace and donthave the samebasic struggles. They have realised pure socialism doesnt work and have amended their aims accordingly. There has never been "pure socialism" in the UK, or any other country for that matter. To say that is doesn't work is a bit daft, given that there's no evidence to prove that whatsoever. Now I would suggest that you start off by reading some kosher books on the subject, maybe Marx and Engels or slightly more historical, the works of Thomas Paine. Now can you point me in the direction of a country that has tried "pure socialism" and has failed - I bet you can't. Please bear in mind the USSR, PRC, Cuba etc are not and never have been examples of "pure socialism" no matter what. New Australis! It failed (Not Australia)
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Post by notanimby on Nov 9, 2013 21:24:22 GMT -1
There has never been "pure socialism" in the UK, or any other country for that matter. To say that is doesn't work is a bit daft, given that there's no evidence to prove that whatsoever. Now I would suggest that you start off by reading some kosher books on the subject, maybe Marx and Engels or slightly more historical, the works of Thomas Paine. Now can you point me in the direction of a country that has tried "pure socialism" and has failed - I bet you can't. Please bear in mind the USSR, PRC, Cuba etc are not and never have been examples of "pure socialism" no matter what. New Australis! It failed (Not Australia) Sorry no, they practised racism for starters. More like national socialism and its notions of racial purity But perhaps you can explain how this equates to what you described as "pure socialism" why not have a bash at how you equate it to the UK?
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Post by ozneil on Nov 9, 2013 22:46:03 GMT -1
New Australis! It failed (Not Australia) Sorry no, they practised racism for starters. More like national socialism and its notions of racial purity But perhaps you can explain how this equates to what you described as "pure socialism" why not have a bash at how you equate it to the UK? Nova Australis??? I think you are getting confused I dont!!!! It may surprise you I dont give a bugger about socialism real or imagined in the UK except as in far as it affected my country as it is now completely irrelevant. I use term "Socialist" as generally understood by the hoi poloi not the pedants/purists
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 16:51:11 GMT -1
Have to agree I would like many of the OZ rules and regs in our country, not the UK, our country, Scotland. Agree up to a point Bormes, but we can't make a direct comparison with a 'new' country, unburdened by 'tradition' and class systems. But I DO think we could start over in Scotland, given the power to run our own affairs. Does ANYONE still believe the Union, where we're ruled by completely different mindsets, is the way forward? BTW, our government are big on observing models from other countries. We're open-minded in that way, unlike the UKE, where it's their way or the highway and Johnny Foreigner couldn't possibly do anything any better than we do...the old Empire mentality.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 18:12:59 GMT -1
Just back on the BAE shipyards, the odious little worm, Tory John Reid's pitched his tuppenceworth in today, in defence of Tory (LibDEM?, who knows, they're the same now) Scottish Secretary at Westminster. They're basically saying vote NO to independence and you'll get military contracts to build ships from Westminster. If you vote yes, we'll......er........what? What will you do, John Reid? Outsource to Korea, Norway? Go the hellish cost of reinvesting in a closed Portsmouth? When the Clyde's MORE than capable? This really beggars belief. ;D www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24889604
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Post by notanimby on Nov 10, 2013 18:13:31 GMT -1
Sorry no, they practised racism for starters. More like national socialism and its notions of racial purity But perhaps you can explain how this equates to what you described as "pure socialism" why not have a bash at how you equate it to the UK? Nova Australis??? I think you are getting confused I dont!!!! It may surprise you I dont give a bugger about socialism real or imagined in the UK except as in far as it affected my country as it is now completely irrelevant. I use term "Socialist" as generally understood by the hoi poloi not the pedants/purists Yeah but you said ( and I quote) "pure socialism" pure pish merr like........ P.S Nova means new as in Nova Scotia So you won't be troubled if we refer to your new PM as a pure fascist basturt who loves adolf hitler to bits then? Efer all only a pedant could disagree.............
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Post by notanimby on Nov 10, 2013 18:18:41 GMT -1
Just back on the BAE shipyards, the odious little worm, Tory John Reid's pitched his tuppenceworth in today, in defence of Tory (LibDEM?, who knows, they're the same now) Scottish Secretary at Westminster. They're basically saying vote NO to independence and you'll get military contracts to build ships from Westminster. If you vote yes, we'll......er........what? What will you do, John Reid? Outsource to Korea, Norway? Go the hellish cost of reinvesting in a closed Portsmouth? When the Clyde's MORE than capable? This really beggars belief. ;D www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24889604HMS Protector the replacement for HMS Endurance was built in Norway and it's leased from the Norwegians HMS Endurance was built in Norway too, originally called HMS Polar Explorer ( whilst leased) she was renamed Endurance after being bought outright You'll notice recently that they've changed from saying rUK won't build any warships abroad to now saying "complex" warships
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