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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 19:26:42 GMT -1
Some Labour/Tory Ian Davidson was on Scottish Politics today repeating the 'threat'.
And kept 'not' answering when SNP's Stuart Maxwell pointed out exactly what you just said there, Nota.
It's no wonder so many former Labour supporters, already totally pissed off with Blair, are seriously considering Indy as a real prospect.
I speak to people every day who, ten or even five years ago wouldn't have dreamed of not voting Labour but are now in the 'undecided' camp: around 20% of the population.
While the NO camp continue their entirely negative scare-mongering, we look forward to Nov 28th and the unveiling of the Scottish Government White Paper that will lay out plans for our future.
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Post by ozneil on Nov 10, 2013 19:38:27 GMT -1
Nova Australis??? I think you are getting confused I dont!!!! It may surprise you I dont give a bugger about socialism real or imagined in the UK except as in far as it affected my country as it is now completely irrelevant. I use term "Socialist" as generally understood by the hoi poloi not the pedants/purists Yeah but you said ( and I quote) "pure socialism" pure pish merr like........ P.S Nova means new as in Nova Scotia So you won't be troubled if we refer to your new PM as a pure fascist basturt who loves adolf hitler to bits then? Efer all only a pedant could disagree............. I am aware Nova is latin for New and Australis is latin for Australia. Nova Australis was set up by a bunch of disgruntled people who emigrated from South Australia and set up their "Utopia" else where in Mid 1800s It didnt last long. Not in the slightest upset at what you call our new PM His name is Tony Abbot (aka The mad Monk) by the way. We are used to uninformed statements like that from UK by people that know very very little about Australia and its people
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Post by notanimby on Nov 16, 2013 7:33:22 GMT -1
Yeah but you said ( and I quote) "pure socialism" pure pish merr like........ P.S Nova means new as in Nova Scotia So you won't be troubled if we refer to your new PM as a pure fascist basturt who loves adolf hitler to bits then? Efer all only a pedant could disagree............. I am aware Nova is latin for New and Australis is latin for Australia. Nova Australis was set up by a bunch of disgruntled people who emigrated from South Australia and set up their "Utopia" else where in Mid 1800s It didnt last long. Not in the slightest upset at what you call our new PM His name is Tony Abbot (aka The mad Monk) by the way. We are used to uninformed statements like that from UK by people that know very very little about Australia and its peopleb]Totally bemused about what you think "left-wing" is We are used to uninformed statements like that from australia ( and elsewhere) by people that know very very little ( if anything whatsoever) about socialism, the UK and its people[/b] There, I've corrected that for you.........
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Post by ozneil on Nov 16, 2013 21:05:09 GMT -1
I am aware Nova is latin for New and Australis is latin for Australia. Nova Australis was set up by a bunch of disgruntled people who emigrated from South Australia and set up their "Utopia" else where in Mid 1800s It didnt last long. Not in the slightest upset at what you call our new PM His name is Tony Abbot (aka The mad Monk) by the way. We are used to uninformed statements like that from UK by people that know very very little about Australia and its peopleb]Totally bemused about what you think "left-wing" is We are used to uninformed statements like that from australia ( and elsewhere) by people that know very very little ( if anything whatsoever) about socialism, the UK and its people [/b] There, I've corrected that for you.........[/quote] WOW!!!! That was very clever. To think you did that all by yourself!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 21:15:33 GMT -1
Oz, a genuine question here..
How's Aus doing in terms of equality of wealth distribution?
UKE is no 8 in the OECD league table of inequality as in a tiny percentage of the populace owning a huge majority of the wealth.
Scotland's unsurprisingly well down the list at no 16 out of the 20 OECD countries polled, but we've a way to go yet.
The Scandinavians lead by a mile on the fair distribution of wealth and have stable economies and happier people to boot. Hardly a coincidink.
I really fear for the UKE, the divides are getting SO vast now it's causing all manner of issues.
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Post by ozneil on Nov 16, 2013 21:44:05 GMT -1
Oz, a genuine question here.. How's Aus doing in terms of equality of wealth distribution? UKE is no 8 in the OECD league table of inequality as in a tiny percentage of the populace owning a huge majority of the wealth. Scotland's unsurprisingly well down the list at no 16 out of the 20 OECD countries polled, but we've a way to go yet. The Scandinavians lead by a mile on the fair distribution of wealth and have stable economies and happier people to boot. Hardly a coincidink. I really fear for the UKE, the divides are getting SO vast now it's causing all manner of issues. Try and give serious answer stats that you suggest are hard to come by. The best I can give is that about 75% to 80% of working population earn with 5-10% of the National average. some of course are very rich and some very poor. The gap there is increasing I think with the rich getting richer and the poor gaining by a much lesser rate. According to Credit Suisse we are the richest country in the world but these figures are skewed due the the large incidence of Home ownership (about 70-75%) and to further bugger things up the States vary significantly
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Post by ozneil on Nov 16, 2013 22:31:52 GMT -1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 22:40:46 GMT -1
Oz, a genuine question here.. How's Aus doing in terms of equality of wealth distribution? UKE is no 8 in the OECD league table of inequality as in a tiny percentage of the populace owning a huge majority of the wealth. Scotland's unsurprisingly well down the list at no 16 out of the 20 OECD countries polled, but we've a way to go yet. The Scandinavians lead by a mile on the fair distribution of wealth and have stable economies and happier people to boot. Hardly a coincidink. I really fear for the UKE, the divides are getting SO vast now it's causing all manner of issues. Try and give serious answer stats that you suggest are hard to come by. The best I can give is that about 75% to 80% of working population earn with 5-10% of the National average. some of course are very rich and some very poor. The gap there is increasing I think with the rich getting richer and the poor gaining by a much lesser rate. According to Credit Suisse we are the richest country in the world but these figures are skewed due the the large incidence of Home ownership (about 70-75%) and to further bugger things up the States vary significantly Cheers, Oz, the average wage in the UKE is around the £26K mark. But anyone left with even a basic grip of maths, knows that there's a huge difference between the 'average' and the 'mean'. We are seeing the same in the UKE, the already rich are getting richer. Our welfare benefits are inflation linked but that inflation rate doesn't take account of housing or energy costs. So yeah the poor are getting poorer. Those in between, your ordinary working people, have mostly seen their income stalled for what, five years pretty much, not even keeping pace with inflation--- while living costs rise inexorably. I want to see everyone who works properly paid, I want to see big conglomerates PAY THEIR RIGHTFUL DUES in taxes and I want an independent Scotland, where we re-assign some sense of fairness by working together for the greater good. The UKE's fucked. The Tories are in for the foreseeable. I think we'll see serious riots/protests in the coming year. At least we Scots have an opportunity to take a better path as of Sept 2014.
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Post by ozneil on Nov 16, 2013 22:49:05 GMT -1
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Post by notanimby on Nov 16, 2013 22:59:16 GMT -1
Try and give serious answer stats that you suggest are hard to come by. The best I can give is that about 75% to 80% of working population earn with 5-10% of the National average. some of course are very rich and some very poor. The gap there is increasing I think with the rich getting richer and the poor gaining by a much lesser rate. According to Credit Suisse we are the richest country in the world but these figures are skewed due the the large incidence of Home ownership (about 70-75%) and to further bugger things up the States vary significantly Cheers, Oz, the average wage in the UKE is around the £26K mark. But anyone left with even a basic grip of maths, knows that there's a huge difference between the 'average' and the 'mean'. We are seeing the same in the UKE, the already rich are getting richer. Our welfare benefits are inflation linked but that inflation rate doesn't take account of housing or energy costs. So yeah the poor are getting poorer. Those in between, your ordinary working people, have mostly seen their income stalled for what, five years pretty much, not even keeping pace with inflation--- while living costs rise inexorably. I want to see everyone who works properly paid, I want to see big conglomerates PAY THEIR RIGHTFUL DUES in taxes and I want an independent Scotland, where we re-assign some sense of fairness by working together for the greater good. The UKE's fucked. The Tories are in for the foreseeable. I think we'll see serious riots/protests in the coming year. At least we Scots have an opportunity to take a better path as of Sept 2014. You should be looking at / for the medians not the mean, once you find them, you'll notice very quickly the rich-poor divide is even bigger. Even plotting a normal distribution curve of rich & poor shows how devastating the divide actually is But no one in authority wants to admit to stuff like that. But as the medians drift further from the extremely rich, the squeezed middle will start revolting. I don't think it's the poor that those in authority have to worry about its what is euphemistically known as the middle classes, who are seeing their financial clout and ability going right down the shitter, to support the bankers, the tax-dodgers, the elite; who are not part of "all in it together" In engerlandshire there's trouble acoming
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 23:37:25 GMT -1
You should be looking at / for the medians not the mean, once you find them, you'll notice very quickly the rich-poor divide is even bigger. Even plotting a normal distribution curve of rich & poor shows how devastating the divide actually is But no one in authority wants to admit to stuff like that. But as the medians drift further from the extremely rich, the squeezed middle will start revolting. I don't think it's the poor that those in authority have to worry about its what is euphemistically known as the middle classes, who are seeing their financial clout and ability going right down the shitter, to support the bankers, the tax-dodgers, the elite; who are not part of "all in it together" In engerlandshire there's trouble acoming Yep, that's precisely what I was saying, Nota. It makes NO SENSE whatsoever to me that some on benefits can 'earn' the average wage, which is actually WAY more than a whole raft of working people. But don't take that the wrong way, please. The issue here is that it's not benefits that are too high, it's that so many ordinary people's wages are too low. And we're being morally blackmailed into not protesting, like we should be somehow thankful to have a job at all. Bejasus. Zero hours contracts and a PITIFUL minimum wage play a part in why things have got so bad. Vast majority of people working under those conditions would be better off on welfare benefits and that CAN'T be right. Fully realise the challenges small businesses face, but I have a real issue with the big conglomerates who can afford to line the pockets of tax evasion accountants. And I take even MORE issue with a Tory government that favours their rich buddies while using the redtop media to set ordinary people against each other in the race to the bottom. LET'S AWAY! The door's ajar.
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Post by notanimby on Nov 17, 2013 8:11:02 GMT -1
Indeed I find it impossible to understand why the uk government via "working tax crdits" etc subsidise employers to pay piss poor wages.
On teh face of it most of these jobs in those sectors have to be done, its not like they can outsource cleaning jobs, care workers, security jobs, etc etc etc to points east of the greenwich meridian.
If they paid a decent rate for the job, there would be less state subsidies, a higher tax take
A mean FFS most folk on housing benefit are actually working, how bad is that, when some folk are working but still incredibly poor - and thats without even going down the zero hours route
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2013 18:53:25 GMT -1
Indeed I find it impossible to understand why the uk government via "working tax crdits" etc subsidise employers to pay piss poor wages. On teh face of it most of these jobs in those sectors have to be done, its not like they can outsource cleaning jobs, care workers, security jobs, etc etc etc to points east of the greenwich meridian. If they paid a decent rate for the job, there would be less state subsidies, a higher tax take A mean FFS most folk on housing benefit are actually working, how bad is that, when some folk are working but still incredibly poor - and thats without even going down the zero hours route Too true, Nota. It's in everyone's interests to raise the tax take--not by taxing people more but by giving them money in their pockets to spend. And that way the VAT take would rise too. Not just on retail goods bought but also on services, traders and the like. Energy, food and housing though, the three essentials that are becoming unaffordable, I don't know ANYONE that isn't cutting back, particularly on energy. In energy-rich Scotland, in 2013. If, as seems likely, interest rates rise next year, so many overstretched people are going to be in real trouble
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