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Post by ozneil on Feb 9, 2014 19:47:43 GMT -1
How many SNP MPs are in Westminster?
How many Scottish seats are there?
Are non-SNP seats all laboor?
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Post by notanimby on Feb 9, 2014 21:52:25 GMT -1
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 22:34:07 GMT -1
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 23:41:06 GMT -1
Well now. A family conversation tonight:
Three generations round the table for dinner at my sister's earlier. We were chatting about everyday stuff when all of a sudden, my 84 year old mum pipes up:
" You know what, I've made my mind up about how I'll vote in the referendum"
I kinda braced myself: my mum's historically been conservative with a small c (liberal/green) her parents from Clydebank were diehard Labourites.
" I'm going to vote YES" she announced, "Although I still have a concern about currency issues and also whether I'm doing right by my grandchildren".
Next to speak was a 22 year old.
" Funny you should say that, I've been undecided but I made my mind up over the weekend. I'm going to vote YES. David Cameron's speech was the turning point for me."
Current state of play of those in the room tonight:
YES 67% UNDECIDED and NO 33%
Taking the official polls at face value, this wouldn't seem to reflect what we're being told by the pollsters. I wonder though, what's actually playing out in the living rooms of Scotland?
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Post by bormes on Feb 10, 2014 8:34:57 GMT -1
Wonderful news form Rolo then!!
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Post by notanimby on Feb 10, 2014 15:11:18 GMT -1
Well now. A family conversation tonight: Three generations round the table for dinner at my sister's earlier. We were chatting about everyday stuff when all of a sudden, my 84 year old mum pipes up: " You know what, I've made my mind up about how I'll vote in the referendum" I kinda braced myself: my mum's historically been conservative with a small c (liberal/green) her parents from Clydebank were diehard Labourites. " I'm going to vote YES" she announced, "Although I still have a concern about currency issues and also whether I'm doing right by my grandchildren". Next to speak was a 22 year old. " Funny you should say that, I've been undecided but I made my mind up over the weekend. I'm going to vote YES. David Cameron's speech was the turning point for me." Current state of play of those in the room tonight: YES 67% UNDECIDED and NO 33% Taking the official polls at face value, this wouldn't seem to reflect what we're being told by the pollsters. I wonder though, what's actually playing out in the living rooms of Scotland? In a similar vein................ Last friday I met up with a sometime colleague for lunch, we hadn't seen each other in a good while. The chat turned to the referendum, my friend is voting YES, he was very empahtic in that. Most people he knows are voting YES too. This brought us to discussing teh opinion polls, we both agreed that they seem to be complete shite in not reflecting what we come across on a daily basis- is there skullduggery at work? I should point out that my friend is English, from Bath and public school educated the on to Embra Uni - he's been living up here for 15 years or so - staying on after graduating and is now marriedd to an Embra girl. He's almost entirely 100% the sort that the NO campaign would have you think are unionists Then on Sunday night a pal from Fulham ( born n bred) phoned, when we got to talking about the referendum, he was saying that they only get shite fed to them down there on the subject but he reckons that most folk don't really give a stuff, it's a matter for us and nothing relationship wise between families, friends and colleagues will change He was a died-in-the-wool tory voter buthas become disillusioned with them, dont even mention LIEBOOR or UKIP - he think swe're lucky up here in tha we have a sensible alternative to the RED, BLUE and YELLA tories I did ask him if this was him phoning on instructions from Call-me-Dave to plead with us not to go..............
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 19:01:10 GMT -1
That's mighty interesting, Nota.
Must admit the vast majority of folks I mingle with daily work in the arts and academia so there's usually a left-of-centre tendency politically anyway. I've had a few conversations recently with staunch Labour musicians who have become undecided, and are more open to the idea of indy than even a year ago.
The topic comes up in our open-plan office a couple of times a week. Age range 18-65. We've not done a straw poll but on listening to the chat, I'd hazard a guess at roughly 50% YES, 25% Undecided and 25% NO.
Re the polls, it all depends what you ask and who you ask, doesn't it! But all of them recently show a distinct momentum towards YES---and a greater proportion of undecideds.
Best of this all is that I've witnessed many a lively debate lately but nobody's falling out with each other. The standard of debate's pretty high because people seem to be informing themselves.
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Post by ozneil on Feb 10, 2014 23:13:00 GMT -1
One thing that puzzles me is the lack on SNP members in Westminster. About 10% of your MPs. Is this because few stood? or because there are one hell of a lot of "rusted-on Labour Voters"? If the latter case could be a problem...... I dont believe opinion polls. You get the results you want by carefully selecting the questions Course the people you are friends with think the same. I know a couple of my Scottish friends are vehemently NO
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Post by notanimby on Feb 11, 2014 6:47:03 GMT -1
One thing that puzzles me is the lack on SNP members in Westminster. About 10% of your MPs. Is this because few stood? or because there are one hell of a lot of "rusted-on Labour Voters"? If the latter case could be a problem...... I dont believe opinion polls. You get the results you want by carefully selecting the questions Course the people you are friends with think the same. I know a couple of my Scottish friends are vehemently NO For westminster parliament peopel thought that voting LIEBOOR-SCUM woudl stave off the tories - that turned out to wotrk not very well at all, at all. I would agree if the people I mentioned above were in ecvery day contact with me, teh guy I for lunch, was the first we had actually met face to face in a couple of years, correspondance being usually througghh email and the odd phone call. First time we have discussed politics in years Similar with my London friend, we don't agree on politics usually in the slightest, him being as mentioned above a tory voter usually Sunda's call was the first tiem I had spoken in depth to him in a year ( he's been going through a very rough time of it in that year with family bereavment an illness) apart from short how ye doing calls and texts I was quite taken aback with the views of the two chaps mentioned above as we are usualy diametrically opposed politically
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 21:35:31 GMT -1
One thing that puzzles me is the lack on SNP members in Westminster. About 10% of your MPs. Is this because few stood? or because there are one hell of a lot of "rusted-on Labour Voters"? If the latter case could be a problem...... I dont believe opinion polls. You get the results you want by carefully selecting the questions Course the people you are friends with think the same. I know a couple of my Scottish friends are vehemently NO Last Westminster election was in 2010, Oz. The SNP have made momentous gains since then, if that's any help at all? Our current SNP government was elected on a landslide the year after and have massive approval ratings on how they've done their job since. I'm sure your NO voting friends will have weighed up the pros and cons, Oz. I'd like to think they'll be voting for what they believe to be the greater good, rather than what directly benefits them.
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Post by ozneil on Feb 12, 2014 22:38:33 GMT -1
They are good people. In fact very good people who think deeply about it
Their arguments are well thought out and have a lot going for them as do yours
As a foreigner I look at both sides with great interest but do not formulate an opinion. I am not qualified to do so, nor do I pass on your opinions to them or vice versa
I sincerely hope the best decision is made for Scotland.
As the Chinese would say is "you live in interesting times"
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Post by ozneil on Feb 12, 2014 23:07:12 GMT -1
Rolo rote
More silly questions Was SNP Gains in Scottish parliament or Westminster bye elections? I dont trust Opinion polls
If Scottish parliament have you any reason to believe the trend will continue in a National Vote?
Are the objectives the same in Scottish & National Governments? This question is based on State/Federal election results here.
My main worry would be that with the huge number of Labour seats in Scotland is that any National Government in Scotland would be Socalist (ok Nota SILLI) dominated
World wide Socialist governments are not renowned for their fiscal competence. OK Nota so some obscure place like Ruritannia was.
To start with you need a hard hitting morally tough government that is willing to and has guts enough to make Scotland Pty Ltd a going concern and prepared to make sacrifices to ensure it is. Labour is NOT renowned for this !
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 23:48:06 GMT -1
Rolo rote More silly questions Was SNP Gains in Scottish parliament or Westminster bye elections? I dont trust Opinion polls If Scottish parliament have you any reason to believe the trend will continue in a National Vote? Are the objectives the same in Scottish & National Governments? This question is based on State/Federal election results here. My main worry would be that with the huge number of Labour seats in Scotland is that any National Government in Scotland would be Socalist (ok Nota SILLI) dominated World wide Socialist governments are not renowned for their fiscal competence. OK Nota so some obscure place like Ruritannia was. To start with you need a hard hitting morally tough government that is willing to and has guts enough to make Scotland Pty Ltd a going concern and prepared to make sacrifices to ensure it is. Labour is NOT renowned for this ! SNP gains were in the Scottish Government elections, Oz. The next NATIONAL vote ( if you mean by that UKE government elections) will not be till 2015, well after the referendum result. The SNP Scottish Government is in power here until our next elections in 2016. Are the objectives the same in Scottish /Westminster governments? I'd hope both would be about the best possible outcome for citizens. I'm far from convinced that Westminster (no matter which party gets a majority) will do its best for the Scottish people. The English, Welsh and Irish will have their own views on that. Re the makeup of any future Scottish independent government: that's for us to decide post the YES vote. I imagine it will be a broad church. And that's just FINE by me, because it will be a democratic one Re (dirty word) Socialist leaning governments being not very good with money---where do you get that idea from, apart from the reactionary attitudes you were taught at school in the 40s? Socialism's about distributing the wealth more fairly, not running countries into bankruptcy. WE ARE SO MUCH SMARTER THAN THAT.
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Post by ozneil on Feb 13, 2014 1:04:28 GMT -1
Rolo rote 50s Im not that old!!!!!!!!! Gees I really wish you hadnt said that Sleeping dogs and all that OK following Governments for financial fuck-ups UKWilson (Bad) Callahan (monstrous fuck ups) Bliar/Brown (no need to say any more) OzWhitlam (Very Bad) Hawke (mediocre) Keating (not as bad as Whitlam but bad) Rudd/Gillaed/Rudd (even worse than Whitlam, . Took a $96 bil surplus and turned it into a $260 bil deficetin 6 years) US Obama (need I go further?) Want me to start on Europe? I would still be very concerned about number of Scottish Labour MPs , Very concerned. Will the Labour party still control them? Are the constituences roughly the same? Do you have a first Past the post in Scottish Parliament elections?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 2:14:49 GMT -1
Yeah, let's hear about how the (dirty word, small s socialists) have fucked up Europe! Maybe we could have a similar analysis of the fascist regimes in Spain and Italy in the last century an all, just for balance. Throw in Nazi Germany for good measure. Balance being the key here. There are 24 INDEPENDENT countries in Europe that share the same currency. Each country is different in culture, mores and values but we are more than the sum of our parts and NOT just about the disposable income in Guy A's pocket. It's about living in a decent, caring society that takes best care of ALL its citizens, whether wealth-creators, ordinary workers or those who're vulnerable. Scotland will fit very well into Europe post indy. The values of the south east of England are going to see them increasingly isolated. Which is a terrible pity, but hey ho. Their choice.
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