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Post by ozneil on Feb 16, 2014 1:57:18 GMT -1
Make your own mind up, Oz No, Nor will I even try. Its not my country. I was interested but it will not affect me or my country one way or the other so I don't have to make my mind up . I don't know enough of life in Scotland to form a balanced opinion. I was only interested because I lived there for a while.
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Post by notanimby on Feb 16, 2014 6:49:29 GMT -1
OK (against my better judgment ) Why were 16 & 17 year olds given vote? I think answer is bloody obvious but am interested to hear the spin. Well before you get yer knickers in a twist again - According to opinion polls 16/17 year olds are more likely to vote no currently. If you actually take the time to go and look you'll also notice that since opinion polls have alluded to this, the NO campaign has never mentioned it again. Now what was the "spin" you were alluding to? - Some "left-wing" conspiracy perchance? - Reds under the Bed ? Some available info en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_agemaps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&t=m&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=206776404744333593615.0004e13dff7cb99c2c657It's amazing what 2 minutes on google found You'll again notice that Isle of Man and Jersey and Guernsey have had voting at 16 for some time
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Post by ozneil on Feb 16, 2014 6:55:39 GMT -1
gees another meaningless rant that says nothing but figjam
I knew I shouldn't have bothered.
I'm just no longer interested enough to bother googling
I've had it with your endless "socialist" rantings
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 13:17:57 GMT -1
I've been a proponent of lowering the age of franchise for years and Rolo has summed up perfectly the reasons why, but missed one! I go back to the Boston Tea Party which was the springboard for American Independence, "No taxation without representation!" Why should all the above plus someone in that age band not be allowed to vote? Not mature enough? Then simply they are not mature enough to be called to serve in war, not be allowed to marry, not be taxed from their incomes... So spot on Rolo!
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Post by notanimby on Feb 16, 2014 18:09:08 GMT -1
I've been a proponent of lowering the age of franchise for years and Rolo has summed up perfectly the reasons why, but missed one! I go back to the Boston Tea Party which was the springboard for American Independence, "No taxation without representation!" Why should all the above plus someone in that age band not be allowed to vote? Not mature enough? Then simply they are not mature enough to be called to serve in war, not be allowed to marry, not be taxed from their incomes... So spot on Rolo! Exactly - you've also reminded me of another apparent fact about the time of American Independence - seemingly only a small percentage supported independence at the start of the war.
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Post by notanimby on Feb 16, 2014 18:16:30 GMT -1
Here are some of the reasons for "loyalists" not supporting American Independence
By A Yale Historian called Leonard Woods Larabee
They were older, better established, and resisted radical change. They felt that rebellion against the Crown—the legitimate government—was morally wrong. They were alienated when the Patriots resorted to violence, such as burning houses and tarring and feathering. They wanted to take a middle-of-the road position and were angry when forced by the Patriots to declare their opposition. They had a long-standing sentimental attachment to Britain (often with business and family links). They were procrastinators who realized that independence was bound to come some day, but wanted to postpone the moment. They were cautious and afraid that chaos and mob rule would result. Some were pessimists who lacked the confidence in the future displayed by the Patriots. Others recalled the dreadful experiences of Scots who rebelled in Scotland and lost their lands when the king won.
They felt that being a part of the British Empire was crucial in terms of commerce and military protection.
Notice how ( in bold) we are still seeing the same reasons 230 years in the future
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Post by notanimby on Feb 16, 2014 18:21:07 GMT -1
gees another meaningless rant that says nothing but figjam I knew I shouldn't have bothered. I'm just no longer interested enough to bother googling I've had it with your endless "socialist" rantings Gees another meaningless pile of pish ( not the reasons one was hoping for I suppose that being that younger folks would be more likely to support independence) I knew I shouldn't have bothered - pre-conceptions & ignorance are hard to alleviate Nah - yer just no longer interested because yer wrang and are struggling to answer I've not had it with yer endless fascist rantings...................they're hilarious - especially when you throw a wee strop - kin ye keep daein' that, it whiles away a weary 5 minutes?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 19:10:07 GMT -1
I've been a proponent of lowering the age of franchise for years and Rolo has summed up perfectly the reasons why, but missed one! I go back to the Boston Tea Party which was the springboard for American Independence, "No taxation without representation!" Why should all the above plus someone in that age band not be allowed to vote? Not mature enough? Then simply they are not mature enough to be called to serve in war, not be allowed to marry, not be taxed from their incomes... So spot on Rolo! Thank you, Gilly, I'm afraid world history's not my strongest suit but 'No taxation without representation' totally sums it up! Just on young people's right to vote, many of the young students aboot this hoose who're living away from home in flats are making sure they're on the electoral roll in time for September. Whichever decision they make, they're engaging and want to have their say. This has to be good for democracy
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Post by ozneil on Feb 16, 2014 19:10:11 GMT -1
Well that is interesting back to personal abuse
I wont sink to your level
but I got to ask ... Wrong about what???
I dont think I have ever expressed a personal opinion about Scottish Independence mainly because I dont have an opinion about it.
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Post by bormes on Feb 16, 2014 19:20:50 GMT -1
Nota, come on, OZ is NAE fascist!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 19:23:24 GMT -1
Friends, just a thought tonight,
Westie established this board as a place to talk freely and without heavy-handed moderation. Particularly on emotive topics like politics and religion, which are now barred on so many community chatboards.
In the interests of mutual respect (and we're all grownups here) please, when challenging each other's views, let's just stay civil.
<no names, no packdrill>
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Post by bormes on Feb 16, 2014 20:02:42 GMT -1
In Scotland OZ it is legal to marry at sixteen and I served in Cyprus and Aden before I was eighteen, yet I could not vote. I do think that marriage or fighting for one's country and life is pretty important , so being allowed to vote seems reasonable?
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Post by ozneil on Feb 16, 2014 20:27:45 GMT -1
Geees I never said it wasnt!!!
I asked why and you assumed I was against it!!!
I am ambivalent
In interests of peace and quiet I wont ask anything else and drop the subject coz it just isnt worth the hassle
we must however <rest deleted by moderator>
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 21:03:47 GMT -1
Geees I never said it wasnt!!! I asked why and you assumed I was against it!!! I am ambivalent In interests of peace and quiet I wont ask anything else and drop the subject coz it just isnt worth the hassle we must however <rest deleted by moderator>I've made no alterations or deletions in any post by you, Oz. Really not sure what that's about there?
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Post by ozneil on Feb 16, 2014 21:11:08 GMT -1
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