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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 20:52:14 GMT -1
Oh there was a definite swing in Obama's favor when Oprah endorsed him. There are thousands of women who will do, buy, eat, or like whatever she says is the good thing of the moment. I'm not sure if Hilary will run or not. Over here she is treated like the de facto Democrat candidate. I'm a bit torn. She is getting a bit long in the tooth AND she has that whole Benghazi thing looming over her. If she runs, I'm her girl. I have a lot of respect for her. I'd vote for her too, P, she has so much to offer. I'd love her to change perspectives on how women can contribute: but to be honest it feels like an uphill struggle, given current mores. I am seriously worried about where our girls and women find themselves now, in every aspect of life.
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Post by ozneil on Jan 29, 2014 22:05:57 GMT -1
I am seriously worried about where our girls and women find themselves now, in every aspect of life. From my very restricted view I am finding more and more ladies popping up in high positions here Boss of one of the big 4 banks is a lady (Seth Effriken) our Foreign Sec is anotheraqs well as high court judges . Still well out numbered by men but they are coming up. The head of the IMF or is it World Bank is that French lady Mind u women here have had the vote since Federation and in some states 1850's they have had a longer period of opportunity than most others I reckon Juliar Gillard put women's cause here back years. She was a cynical political appointment by the faceless men of the Labour Party & had Mctierny as a spin doctor
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 0:28:16 GMT -1
I'm talking about cultural issues, Oz.
I imagine Peony might understand my drift.
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Post by ozneil on Jan 30, 2014 0:32:31 GMT -1
I'm talking about cultural issues, Oz. I imagine Peony might understand my drift. You were? ah well
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Post by peony on Jan 30, 2014 19:49:41 GMT -1
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Post by ozneil on Jan 30, 2014 20:06:18 GMT -1
Cate Blanchet had a go at a TV Cameraman on way into some gig in Sydney for slowly panning his camera from head to toes She said "Would you do that if it was a guy" The response was wonderful "I would if he was wearing a red ? dress " (Cant remember dress designers name)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 20:33:02 GMT -1
I remember you saying that years back, P. I suppose I look at the UKE government and the US government and see, overwhelmingly, white males in power and so bloody desperate to hang on to it. Thus making life far more difficult for non-whites and non-males to make their mark, whether they're any GOOD at their jobs or not. It would be great if Hillary ran for office next time round, and found a way to counter the prejudice by doing her best darned job. Which, of course, needs to be ten times better than a male would do it-- before she gets any plaudits, or dare I say it, respect. Women in politics in Scotland (just out of interest) make up approximately 45% of the total in our cross party parliament. Our parly doesn't subscribe to late-night sittings (unlike Westminster) and regulates working hours to retain some kind of reasonable work/life balance. Which is sane, IMV. Very similar to most countries in Europe, in that way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 20:40:02 GMT -1
Cate Blanchet had a go at a TV Cameraman on way into some gig in Sydney for slowly panning his camera from head to toes She said "Would you do that if it was a guy" The response was wonderful "I would if he was wearing a red ? dress " (Cant remember dress designers name) Oz, I don't know about Australia but here in UKE, female politicians get torn apart in the redtops not for what they say or represent necessarily but whether their personal style passes *muster*. I don't recall--EVER--any male politician routinely subjected to ridicule over his weight, choice of outfit, or shoes. You GOTTA admit double-standards not only exist but are probably FAR FAR more extreme than 20 years back. Which is why I fear for hugely capable girls and women in our so-called civilised society.
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Post by ozneil on Jan 30, 2014 21:16:06 GMT -1
]Oz, I don't know about Australia but here in UKE, female politicians get torn apart in the redtops not for what they say or represent necessarily but whether their personal style passes *muster*. I don't recall--EVER--any male politician routinely subjected to ridicule over his weight, choice of outfit, or shoes. You GOTTA admit double-standards not only exist but are probably FAR FAR more extreme than 20 years back. Which is why I fear for hugely capable girls and women in our so-called civilised society. I will have to think about that. Being a mere male I am not really in a position to judge. I cant recall our prominent lady MPS being ridiculed over weight or dress but it is possible I just didnt notice. Got at over many things but not appearance. Some do have fun with our Foreign Secretary. Julie Bishop, but thats in fun & she reponds in kind. She is a very bright lady ...watch for her at international conference. I know in my limited experience having a Kiwi lady business partner all the people we dealt with treated her on her merits . In major construction ladies in her role are as scarce as hen's teeth. I know on site the guys always treated her with respect (Josef a Czech site manager always tried to make her climb ladders ahead of him but that was just Josef). Big difference between UK & Oz building sites workmen here dont whistle and yell at females passing site. I would say women are more accepted as equals here than they were 20 years ago but even 20 years ago they were more accepted than in UK. Women complain of the glass ceiling, so few women in top jobs. Thats true but women bring up families and have other priorities. The ones that put their mind to it and with the ability can and do get to the top. The labour party as brought in a rule that a certain percentage of their candidates must be women... How bloody stupid & typical. They lose out on some good men because of this and bring in sub-standard women to fill quota , they havent yet grasped the concept of equality This is not a definitive answer just the way I see it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 18:00:43 GMT -1
]Oz, I don't know about Australia but here in UKE, female politicians get torn apart in the redtops not for what they say or represent necessarily but whether their personal style passes *muster*. I don't recall--EVER--any male politician routinely subjected to ridicule over his weight, choice of outfit, or shoes. You GOTTA admit double-standards not only exist but are probably FAR FAR more extreme than 20 years back. Which is why I fear for hugely capable girls and women in our so-called civilised society. I will have to think about that. Being a mere male I am not really in a position to judge. I cant recall our prominent lady MPS being ridiculed over weight or dress but it is possible I just didnt notice. Got at over many things but not appearance. Some do have fun with our Foreign Secretary. Julie Bishop, but thats in fun & she reponds in kind. She is a very bright lady ...watch for her at international conference. I know in my limited experience having a Kiwi lady business partner all the people we dealt with treated her on her merits . In major construction ladies in her role are as scarce as hen's teeth. I know on site the guys always treated her with respect ( Josef a Czech site manager always tried to make her climb ladders ahead of him but that was just Josef).
Big difference between UK & Oz building sites workmen here dont whistle and yell at females passing site. I would say women are more accepted as equals here than they were 20 years ago but even 20 years ago they were more accepted than in UK. Women complain of the glass ceiling, so few women in top jobs. Thats true but women bring up families and have other priorities. The ones that put their mind to it and with the ability can and do get to the top. The labour party as brought in a rule that a certain percentage of their candidates must be women... How bloody stupid & typical. They lose out on some good men because of this and bring in sub-standard women to fill quota , they havent yet grasped the concept of equality This is not a definitive answer just the way I see it Fairynuff! I too just call it the way I see it here (I imagine your business partner was well aware of *just Josef* trying to get a swatch at her ass but frankly, she shouldn't really have had to put up with that, don't you think?) I agree with you re determined women being able to reach top jobs. However, in the UKE (don't know about the US?) they are then pilloried as being 'selfish' and 'bad mothers'. In certain redtops we see a constant undermining of womens' choices that tries to set women against each other: stay at home mothers versus career bitches, that kind of thing. It's nasty stuff. As it happens, I don't agree with quotas (for boards, political candidacy, whatever...). It should always be about ability, IMV.(except for the Westminster government of course, they'd promote a male donkey over a woman any day..) That said, it's also true that the vast majority of women lose out on promotions, advancement etc because they've taken time out-or work part time- to bring up their family. Childless women tend to fare better, in my experience. However, there's more than one measure of 'success' in my opinion: bringing up a family AND working is way up there in terms of how I'd measure it.
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Post by bormes on Jan 31, 2014 19:02:27 GMT -1
Only my opinion but, I can not understand why a woman would be paid less than a man to do the same job if she can do it properly. My favourite teachers and I admired them were women and the worst ever was a woman a real nasty petty weirdo, unusual though. I hate and do not think quotas are correct. I think in a small business this long maternity leave is NOT helpful to the EMPLOYER. I should also say retirement should be the same too. I dislike how some jobs women who are NOT up to the job but are put in an awkward position and can put coworkers in a bad position.
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Post by ozneil on Jan 31, 2014 19:44:38 GMT -1
Fairynuff! I too just call it the way I see it here (I imagine your business partner was well aware of *just Josef* trying to get a swatch at her ass but frankly, she shouldn't really have had to put up with that, don't you think?) I agree with you re determined women being able to reach top jobs. However, in the UKE (don't know about the US?) they are then pilloried as being 'selfish' and 'bad mothers'. In certain redtops we see a constant undermining of womens' choices that tries to set women against each other: stay at home mothers versus career bitches, that kind of thing. It's nasty stuff. As it happens, I don't agree with quotas (for boards, political candidacy, whatever...). It should always be about ability, IMV.(except for the Westminster government of course, they'd promote a male donkey over a woman any day..) That said, it's also true that the vast majority of women lose out on promotions, advancement etc because they've taken time out-or work part time- to bring up their family. Childless women tend to fare better, in my experience. However, there's more than one measure of 'success' in my opinion: bringing up a family AND working is way up there in terms of how I'd measure it. I agree entirely with you. It looks as though a woman's chances are better here I wonder why? Are the newspaper reporting shaping public opinion? Are men scared to find women are their equal in most things and better than them in a lot? If a woman takes time out to raise a family she will not have the same business experience as her contemporaries so unless she is exceptional she will remain behind them. We have quite a few house husbands here. My last accountant was one. His wife was rapidly becoming a high flying actuary so he stayed at home and looked after 2 kids she made oodles of cash. I am trying to remember any occasions of newspaper articles running down women on their sex and I cant honestly remember one. Even Gillard our worst ever PM was never castigated on her sex. Her boy friend copped heaps as a freeloader A light bulb has just flashed!!!!! Gillard's desperation misogyny speech was written by McTiernon and he had used UK conditions and attitudes thinking OZ was the same (a common mistake). Thats why the speech sounded so utterly stupid here. BTW No one could take offence a Josef he was a charming man every time M. appeared on site he literally jumped up clicked heels and bowed. Wasnt put on he just did it naturally. I often thought he was going to kiss her hand. He flattered M outrageously which she very obviously enjoyed. At the same time he took her decisions without question. He was in his 60s and M would have been about 30 at the time
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 21:32:50 GMT -1
I agree entirely with you. It looks as though a woman's chances are better here I wonder why?
Are the newspaper reporting shaping public opinion?
Are men scared to find women are their equal in most things and better than them in a lot? If a woman takes time out to raise a family she will not have the same business experience as her contemporaries so unless she is exceptional she will remain behind them. We have quite a few house husbands here. My last accountant was one. His wife was rapidly becoming a high flying actuary so he stayed at home and looked after 2 kids she made oodles of cash. I am trying to remember any occasions of newspaper articles running down women on their sex and I cant honestly remember one. Even Gillard our worst ever PM was never castigated on her sex. Her boy friend copped heaps as a freeloader A light bulb has just flashed!!!!! Gillard's desperation misogyny speech was written by McTiernon and he had used UK conditions and attitudes thinking OZ was the same (a common mistake). Thats why the speech sounded so utterly stupid here. BTW No one could take offence a Josef he was a charming man every time M. appeared on site he literally jumped up clicked heels and bowed. Wasnt put on he just did it naturally. I often thought he was going to kiss her hand. He flattered M outrageously which she very obviously enjoyed. At the same time he took her decisions without question. He was in his 60s and M would have been about 30 at the time I think part of the reason here in the UKE is the old-boy network, Oz. It's top-down. Historical way of doing things that hasn't quite dragged itself into the 21st (or even 20th) century. Perhaps the difference is that you guys started off with a relatively clean sheet, no entrenched systems like we have here? Plus the UKE gutter press are out of control in their personal attacks, IMV. Transparency's one thing but attacking people in the public eye, solely for their appearance, is something else. From the perspective of a woman living/working in Scotland: it's noticeably different here to the rUK, specially the South East. People (men?) there are so competitive, it gets a bit cutthroat. Are men scared that women are their equal and better than them in a lot?
I don't generally find this the case in Scotland, although there is a minority who can't handle the notion..or the reality. The vast majority of men I work/mix/socialise with are educated/smart/sussed/and decent. A bit of mutual respect goes a long long way
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Post by ozneil on Jan 31, 2014 21:48:16 GMT -1
I have only had trouble with one guy that wouldn't accept M's instructions. He was migrant and just couldnt accept a woman boss. Luckily for me he left before I fired him.
One of ms Oz's mates is an Airline captain on a commuter airline flies SAAB 340s 36 pax.
She was telling us on one flight a male passenger on realising that the flight crew and cabin crew were all females had near hysterics, he was genuinely terrified, so much so that they were seriously considering returning to the airport and dropping him off.
However with the help of another passenger they managed to calm him down. He apologised to the hostie on arrival at Sydney. She said it was exciting while it lasted.
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