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Post by Sir Henry Rawlinson on Jul 2, 2014 21:50:58 GMT -1
Get me two. One with loud whistle
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Post by ozneil on Jul 2, 2014 23:41:21 GMT -1
A question for Oz; Would you be happy to have nuclear submarines based within 30 miles of your lovely Sydney suburb? Yes not happy perhaps but think it is a necessary safeguard. We are in a very different situation from you. We are one of the only 2 countries in the world that are net exporters of food and energy and we think we do need protection. A lot of peoples are casting covetous eyes on us We have a nuclear reactor at Lucas Heights within 30 miles of here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 23:52:25 GMT -1
A question for Oz; Would you be happy to have nuclear submarines based within 30 miles of your lovely Sydney suburb? Yes not happy perhaps but think it is a necessary safeguard. We are in a very different situation from you. We are one of the only 2 countries in the world that are net exporters of food and energy and we think we do need protection. A lot of peoples are casting covetous eyes on us We have a nuclear reactor at Lucas Heights within 30 miles of here. Australia does not have nuclear weapons, am I right? Why not?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 0:23:23 GMT -1
I'll ask you the question again and put it slightly differently, Oz. Would you be happy for your children and grandchildren to live within a 30 mile radius of a nuclear weapons site? The West of Scotland has had *TARGET* written all over it since I was a young child (because Westmonster didn't want Trident ANYWHERE NEAR their douce South East of England voting territory).. At primary school, in the height of the Cold War with Russia (Eastern bloc, much of which part of the EEC now....) we were terrified out of our tiny wits by continuous showings of the film 'Protect and Survive'. Let's just say I know to *protect* me and mine from incoming nuclear attack by hiding under the ktchn table Oh--- and of course, having a few tins of beans, a battery powered radio and a torch in the cupboard under the stairs.... Many of my generation still have nightmares about that particular threat, me included. We were brought up to FEAR the enemy, whoever the 'enemy' was.... Scotland has no pretensions to being a *world power*. We're not interested in world domination via threat. We'd like, I strongly believe, to go about our lives in peace and with some semblance f quality, contributing as we've always done and taking care of our own people and others, with a view to humanitarian aid where we can be of help. Removal of Trident from Scotland is one of the main reasons I decided to vote Yes for independence. I won't have that hideous threat visited on my or anyone else's weans. If Westmonster is SO fixated on the nuclear *deterrent* then let them house it on the Thames.
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Post by ozneil on Jul 3, 2014 1:16:52 GMT -1
We dont have nuclear weapons thanks to stupid government
We were brought up the same fear of nuclear..
To put it bluntly Scotland hasnt got anything anyone would want. We have Space, food, minerals (including oil gas and uranium) and neighbours that covet it.
We should have deterrents.
As to weapons dumps they wouldnt be near any centre of population
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Post by ozneil on Jul 3, 2014 3:08:11 GMT -1
I'll ask you the question again and put it slightly differently, Oz. Would you be happy for your children and grandchildren to live within a 30 mile radius of a nuclear weapons site? The West of Scotland has had *TARGET* written all over it since I was a young child (because Westmonster didn't want Trident ANYWHERE NEAR their douce South East of England voting territory).. At primary school, in the height of the Cold War with Russia (Eastern bloc, much of which part of the EEC now....) we were terrified out of our tiny wits by continuous showings of the film 'Protect and Survive'. Let's just say I know to *protect* me and mine from incoming nuclear attack by hiding under the ktchn table Oh--- and of course, having a few tins of beans, a battery powered radio and a torch in the cupboard under the stairs.... Many of my generation still have nightmares about that particular threat, me included. We were brought up to FEAR the enemy, whoever the 'enemy' was.... Scotland has no pretensions to being a *world power*. We're not interested in world domination via threat. We'd like, I strongly believe, to go about our lives in peace and with some semblance f quality, contributing as we've always done and taking care of our own people and others, with a view to humanitarian aid where we can be of help. Removal of Trident from Scotland is one of the main reasons I decided to vote Yes for independence. I won't have that hideous threat visited on my or anyone else's weans. If Westmonster is SO fixated on the nuclear *deterrent* then let them house it on the Thames. To put the answer succinctly. I like living in a laid back, happy, prosperous country with a stable democratic government. I would like my kids, grandkids and Great grandkids (ger a move on Gkids!!!) to have the same. I do not want me or my descendants to live in a totalitarian country whether secular or religious ruled by invaders. If the price is having nuclear deterrents so be it ... Its a cheap price.
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Post by notanimby on Jul 3, 2014 5:03:37 GMT -1
Get me two. One with loud whistle If youwant an oberon class one ( as in Oz's photie) there's one lying over at Rosneath/Rhu - its going to be dismantled - this is the one that a few years ago, some idiots wanted to bring to greenock to put in thon dry-dock
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Post by notanimby on Jul 3, 2014 5:07:01 GMT -1
I'll ask you the question again and put it slightly differently, Oz. Would you be happy for your children and grandchildren to live within a 30 mile radius of a nuclear weapons site? The West of Scotland has had *TARGET* written all over it since I was a young child (because Westmonster didn't want Trident ANYWHERE NEAR their douce South East of England voting territory).. At primary school, in the height of the Cold War with Russia (Eastern bloc, much of which part of the EEC now....) we were terrified out of our tiny wits by continuous showings of the film 'Protect and Survive'. Let's just say I know to *protect* me and mine from incoming nuclear attack by hiding under the ktchn table Oh--- and of course, having a few tins of beans, a battery powered radio and a torch in the cupboard under the stairs.... Many of my generation still have nightmares about that particular threat, me included. We were brought up to FEAR the enemy, whoever the 'enemy' was.... Scotland has no pretensions to being a *world power*. We're not interested in world domination via threat. We'd like, I strongly believe, to go about our lives in peace and with some semblance f quality, contributing as we've always done and taking care of our own people and others, with a view to humanitarian aid where we can be of help. Removal of Trident from Scotland is one of the main reasons I decided to vote Yes for independence. I won't have that hideous threat visited on my or anyone else's weans. If Westmonster is SO fixated on the nuclear *deterrent* then let them house it on the Thames. To put the answer succinctly. I like living in a laid back, happy, prosperous country with a stable democratic government. I would like my kids, grandkids and Great grandkids (ger a move on Gkids!!!) to have the same. I do not want me or my descendants to live in a totalitarian country whether secular or religious ruled by invaders. If the price is having nuclear deterrents so be it ... Its a cheap price. I sort of understand your thinking, I think - but how do you equate that to having weapons that would vaporize millions - an dnot just your enemies citizens? I'm struggling to make the leap from not wanting to live under a government I consider to be bad to armageddon - better to live and fight rarther than just melt due to a state of pique
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Post by bormes on Jul 3, 2014 7:05:06 GMT -1
Oz is quite correct about no one, apart from Westminster wanting Scotland!! However there is merit up to a point in what Oz feels now about these weapons, except in my humble opinion Australia is the new Europe for the USA and her motives for the far east. The USA is now the protector and has been for some time along with the UK of Australia. Despite Australia not wanting nor allowing visiting Subs from allies, I ASSURE you our and US Subs were down in the sphere of Oz since the sixties and all our "Enemies" knew it too!! You dont need them, nor the expense of them Oz, however a huge YES to the fact your lovely country is being watched avidly by greedy, nasty religous and non religous countries' leaders!!
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Post by ozneil on Jul 3, 2014 8:39:01 GMT -1
Oz is quite correct about no one, apart from Westminster wanting Scotland!! However there is merit up to a point in what Oz feels now about these weapons, except in my humble opinion Australia is the new Europe for the USA and her motives for the far east. The USA is now the protector and has been for some time along with the UK of Australia. Despite Australia not wanting nor allowing visiting Subs from allies, I ASSURE you our and US Subs were down in the sphere of Oz since the sixties and all our "Enemies" knew it too!! You dont need them, nor the expense of them Oz, however a huge YES to the fact your lovely country is being watched avidly by greedy, nasty religous and non religous countries' leaders!! US has been our protector, and the protection is accepted greatfully, since 1941. UK has let us down on numerous occasions and made no attempt to help us in WW2. In fact Churchill tried to use our forces for his own ends to the detriment of Oz. We know US & UK subs work out here (as well as subs from other nations) they are aided by our forces and we have never objected to them operating in our sphere of influence. We are now far more aligned with the US than UK. Apart from the odd sub, which we do not know about, the only RN presence is survey ships. US fleet regularly visit our cities and the occasional RN ship ... Its NZ that bans nuclear ships UK lacks the will to protect us it has for yonks (Wilson's East of Suez speech.... stupid bastard). US has always been willing but how long will this last? Better if we have our own armaments that will cause the nasties to stop and think and realise we can destroy them if they attack. Last UK troops left Oz in 1857 RN in 1913 We had RN subs in Exmouth gulf in 1944/5 but they were a side show
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Post by ozneil on Jul 3, 2014 8:48:22 GMT -1
I sort of understand your thinking, I think - but how do you equate that to having weapons that would vaporize millions - an dnot just your enemies citizens? I'm struggling to make the leap from not wanting to live under a government I consider to be bad to armageddon - better to live and fight rarther than just melt due to a state of pique If a potential enemy knows that to invade our country would trigger a lethal response on their capital he will think twice before attacking. How can we live and fight? We have a small population 1/3 of UKs in a country 31 times the size. We have to rely on technology not man power
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Post by bormes on Jul 3, 2014 10:54:14 GMT -1
Agree with most of that OZ, except I do think that the UK WOULD come to the aid of OZ and NZ if there was a problem. I can think of scenarios where Oz could be invaded, I must say I HOPE that will NEVER happen!!
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Post by notanimby on Jul 3, 2014 12:45:21 GMT -1
I sort of understand your thinking, I think - but how do you equate that to having weapons that would vaporize millions - an dnot just your enemies citizens? I'm struggling to make the leap from not wanting to live under a government I consider to be bad to armageddon - better to live and fight rarther than just melt due to a state of pique If a potential enemy knows that to invade our country would trigger a lethal response on their capital he will think twice before attacking. How can we live and fight? We have a small population 1/3 of UKs in a country 31 times the size. We have to rely on technology not man power Hmmmm really? So you wouldn't have any problem with say the Taliban nuking New York, London, Sydney, NATO Capitals then - after all the "west" invaded their country Or even Iraqis doing the same, after all "we" invaded their country illegally For example the attack on Glasgow Airport in 2007 - the surviving terrorist ( an Iraqi) freely admits to doing it because the UK invaded Iraq What you have to remember when carrying a big stick and proclaiming you're the good guy is that the other side see themselves as the good guy too and will strike back in any way they can, because, as in Iraq, calling one self the good guy but managing to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians to do that, doesn't endear one to the locals
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Post by notanimby on Jul 3, 2014 12:56:40 GMT -1
Getting back on track with this thread Here's a photie of the drydock when it was still in use - not the best but the dock is in middle of picture, just to the right of the "square" harbour - long and thin and comes right up to virtually the main road - you could drive by the gate and look in and see what was in the dock at the time - mainly used for fitting out boats/ships after launch - you can see the shipbuilding berths just further to the right
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Post by bormes on Jul 3, 2014 13:09:36 GMT -1
Great photo Nota! However getting back to what we were also discussing!!!! There is truth in what you say, I feel it all comes down to ideology or what you think is right? Personally I still would rather have western ideas than the outlook the talibs and frankly what many, many islamic fighters all over the world involved in wars have as their values or ideas.
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