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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2014 21:16:57 GMT -1
Yet another cultural difference between Scotland and its near neighbours who voted THIS guy in: Attachments:
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Post by notanimby on Apr 19, 2014 21:27:45 GMT -1
Yet another cultural difference between Scotland and its near neighbours who voted THIS guy in: He is indeed a fanny, he's from Aberdeen I think but had to carpetbag it souf of the border as he had no chance of getting elected as a Tory in Scotland Love this photie of him getting shown up by primary school weans  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2014 22:54:10 GMT -1
It does appear that England is going the way of the US in terms of only the wealthy having access to good quality education.
(For those friends here not from Scotland, NO student living in Scotland pays fees for tertiary education. We (very happily) subsidise our young people through our taxation.)
As ever, I feel REALLY sorry for good folks over the border who just want a decent education for their kids but can only get it by shelling out £9000 a year and upwards. And if they don't have the readies, they their kids have to take student loans that see them graduating £30,000+ in debt.
That's no way to live. IMV.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 20, 2014 0:29:50 GMT -1
Interesting take on education.
Most of our kids get grants or scholarships to help with fees.
They get a che*p government loan (HECS) where repayments kick in when grad is getting an income of over $x thousand.
We work on the principle that those with degrees are gonna make more $$$ than those without degrees. So why should the poor subsidise uni students that are gonna make a motza on graduation? eg lawyers, doctors, some engineers accountants etc
The fees vary depending on course eg nursing & teaching have low fees, in these cases generally have fees paid by government on conditions, law and medicine have high fees ... these are just examples.
If a kid is bright enough he/she will go thru' uni without paying fees and with board and books paid for all on Scholarships and grants.
We had one cadet who figured out it was boggin'er for him getting a HECS loan and repaying at low interest rate and investing money at a higher rate. He was always figuring get rich schemes like getting something on credit over 2 years at no interest and no repayments till then. He paid it just b4 it was due. He is now a pretty successful guy and not even a Scot!!! He is Han Chinese whose family has been on OZ since 1850s. His mum was for many ages our unofficial legal adviser as in "G***y ask your mum what will happen if..." She is a Barrister
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 1:04:04 GMT -1
Interesting take on education. Most of our kids get grants or scholarships to help with fees. They get a che*p government loan (HECS) where repayments kick in when grad is getting an income of over $x thousand. We work on the principle that those with degrees are gonna make more $$$ than those without degrees. So why should the poor subsidise uni students that are gonna make a motza on graduation? eg lawyers, doctors, some engineers accountants etc The fees vary depending on course eg nursing & teaching have low fees, in these cases generally have fees paid by government on conditions, law and medicine have high fees ... these are just examples. If a kid is bright enough he/she will go thru' uni without paying fees and with board and books paid for all on Scholarships and grants. We had one cadet who figured out it was boggin'er for him getting a HECS loan and repaying at low interest rate and investing money at a higher rate. He was always figuring get rich schemes like getting something on credit over 2 years at no interest and no repayments till then. He paid it just b4 it was due. He is now a pretty successful guy and not even a Scot!!! He is Han Chinese whose family has been on OZ since 1850s. His mum was for many ages our unofficial legal adviser as in "G***y ask your mum what will happen if..." She is a Barrister Sorry I'm confused by this, Oz. Most of our kids get grants or scholarships to help with fees.
They get a che*p government loan (HECS) where repayments kick in when grad is getting an income of over $x thousand.Most of your kids get 'which'? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 1:07:31 GMT -1
And also slightly confused by this an all!
If a kid is bright enough he/she will go thru' uni without paying fees and with board and books paid for all on Scholarships and grants.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 20, 2014 2:11:56 GMT -1
Sorry I'm confused by this, Oz. Most of our kids get grants or scholarships to help with fees.
They get a che*p government loan (HECS) where repayments kick in when grad is getting an income of over $x thousand.Most of your kids get 'which'? Most kids going to uni get Government grant. got to be pretty rich not to get a grant. A lot of kids will get Scholarships from all sorts of places dependent on need and/or merit. eg Local footy club can give a scholarship to a needy family, lots like "Legacy" who give Scholarships to orphaned kids of Servicemen. The list goes on and on. Seriously bright kids get a University & Commonwealth Scholarship could be both. Big companies do the same such as Chevron Oil (a Yank Company) and BHP etc etc. Seriously bright kids will get enough in grants and Scholarships so that they have no debts. No 2 Grandson has paid everything from these sources No1 Grandson computer geek paid off his HECS in 2 years A rich kid who is only marginal entry level will get nothing except a HECS loan and have to pay the lot. At the other end a poor kid who is seriously bright does not have to worry about$$ Grants and scholarship amounts vary tremendously from a few hundred up to several thousand . It is in cash for student to do as he wishes. This leads to intense competeion between the unis. Clear as mud?? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 19:26:11 GMT -1
Very complicated, Oz, yes.
Here, a Scottish student studying in Scotland pays no tuition fees (currently £7000-£9000 per year).
If they choose to move away from home and study in another Scottish Uni, they usually find their living costs via family support or student loan, repayable once they earn £15K and above.
It's incremental, someone on £20K would pay back about £40 a month, but on £40K three times that.
We do have the odd scholarship or bursary too, usually from private trusts and foundations but pretty rare in the scheme of things.
In Scotland we tend to believe it's the ability to learn, not the ability to pay, that counts.
And personally speaking, I'd abolish the whole student loan thing too. I'd be willing to pay a little more tax on condition it was ring-fenced into a system of student grants.
I was fortunate enough to have one in the 70s and I really regret that so many kids now enter their working lives with such a horrendous burden of debt weighing them down, in many cases £30,000-£40,000--if they've left home and lived elsewhere to find the course best suited to their talents.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 21, 2014 20:16:41 GMT -1
Same here ability to learn is the thing. It is actively encouraged
The brighter the kid the more scholarships and a place in a better Uni.... The Scholarships do not have to be repaid.
Course costs vary greatly with medicine being one of the most exxy. The dearer degrees also give grads the highest remuneration so the higher HECS repayments arent such a drain
Standard of Unis varies a lot. One Uni offered me a job as a part time lecturer quite frankly to use Marx* criteria I wouldnt go to any University that offered me a job
*Groucho not Karl
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 21:11:38 GMT -1
Seems like Scotland and Australia are broadly on the same page re the principles, Oz. A very different picture in England though. They voted in successive governments that appear to favour only the wealthy having access to tertiary education--as in tuition fees of £9000 a year plus living costs if away from home. The US model of course--where only the uber-wealthy can access those lofty heights of academia? Thanks, but no thanks  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 19:44:46 GMT -1
Just need to say this. In a difficult week re IndyRef, let's not lose track of the principles that are important to us.
In Scotland, for hundreds of years now, we've espoused the principle of free education: in primary and secondary schools and latterly by not charging tuition fees to Scottish higher education students.
The principle has aye been; the ability to learn, not the ability to pay.
I'll be completely honest with you. I DID consider private secondary schooling for Ms Rolo. I could have borrowed the money to put her through, probably about 60K for six years at secondary.
I decided against it for two reasons. Because it would have been difficult to afford, realistically, and because the sense of *competition* with her wealthier schoolmates would have led to grief..I'd not have been able to afford all the extras; the ridiculously expensive school trips, the uniform that could only be bought from exclusive suppliers, the sports gear, the *princess* pony lifestyle, and I didn't want to condemn her to her wee ma meeting her on foot after school, while Range Rovers and Mercs compete for pavement room. That way lies bullying. I experienced it at my own school, Jordanhill, in the 70s.
No disrespect to anyone that chooses private education. But I'm more than happy to put my tax dollar into free education for all.
Ms Rolo's passed her third year exams with flying colours and heads into 4th year honours on her own merits and hard graft @ Glasgow Uni.
Say it again. Thanks to all Scottish taxpayers that contribute to my girl's tuition fees.
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Post by notanimby on Aug 8, 2014 22:35:29 GMT -1
Private education is a a waste of dosh, if yer wean is intelligent enough, has a decent work ethic and supportive parents, they'll dae well at any school, nae need to throw money at it.
Family friends who worked in the Far East sent their two daughters to Lomond School in Helensburgh, their employer paid for it.
A large part of Lomonds clientele consisted of arseholes who had been chucked out of other private schools for being shitebags, they ended up at Lomond as they weren't to fussy and perish the thought of those wee erses living at home
At the same time the two girls were there, lomond was also a client of mine, you could easily spend all day cheerfully slapping a lot of the "entitled" we fuckers
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Post by celyn on Aug 11, 2014 0:01:37 GMT -1
Private education is a a waste of dosh, if yer wean is intelligent enough, has a decent work ethic and supportive parents, they'll dae well at any school, nae need to throw money at it... In many cases, it might have more to do with making the "right" contacts and friends than anything to do with quality of education or braininess of pupil.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 1:26:14 GMT -1
Private education is a a waste of dosh, if yer wean is intelligent enough, has a decent work ethic and supportive parents, they'll dae well at any school, nae need to throw money at it... In many cases, it might have more to do with making the "right" contacts and friends than anything to do with quality of education or braininess of pupil. Up to a point, yes, I agree. Back in the last century, though, when I was at Uni, the kids whose parents had heavily invested in their private education were totally under the cosh to perform, get firsts and be, you know.......future leaders and all that. Such pressure: they were inevitably the ones who just couldn't hang out or even begin to enjoy themselves, for fear of parental retribution. I do think though, that private schools are very good at building a sense of, shall we say, self-esteem, in their pupils. A certain sense of, well, entitlement. Self-confidence, good: if not misplaced. Entitlement? Get tae... |
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Post by notanimby on Aug 11, 2014 7:21:43 GMT -1
In many cases, it might have more to do with making the "right" contacts and friends than anything to do with quality of education or braininess of pupil. Up to a point, yes, I agree. Back in the last century, though, when I was at Uni, the kids whose parents had heavily invested in their private education were totally under the cosh to perform, get firsts and be, you know.......future leaders and all that. Such pressure: they were inevitably the ones who just couldn't hang out or even begin to enjoy themselves, for fear of parental retribution. I do think though, that private schools are very good at building a sense of, shall we say, self-esteem, in their pupils. A certain sense of, well, entitlement. Self-confidence, good: if not misplaced. Entitlement? Get tae... Spending a large part of my week working in Embra I know a lot of privately educated folks ( Embra has the highest percentage of pupils going private in the country) most are just liek anyone else in their social attitudes. Unfortunately there is a sizeable minority who do feel entitled, who think they are a cut above the rest and superior to all |
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