Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 3:22:02 GMT -1
The online store, not the river... So it was about working conditions in their Swansea warehouse. Guys on nightshift doing 10.5 hour shifts four times a week. At £8.25 an hour. They smuggled a reporter in who secretly filmed having to walk 11 miles picking items for dispatch while being terrorised by a bleeper that timed their every move. It's called performance targets, apparently. Pretty well known, I think, that Amazon site their warehouses in areas of high unemployment and get govt subsidies accordingly. Welsh and Scottish govts I know have done that. So what's the beef? Well, I'm not 100% convinced their working practices are THAT out of step in comparison to how workers are generally treated in the UKE these days. Though taking three sick days and you're out seems pretty harsh, if not actually illegal.. It does seem to me though that these huge global tax evading companies have it all ways and employees can like it or lump it. THAT, my friends, is the price of saving a quid here and there. The companies are making FORTUNES while the workers are barely rewarded for getting out of bed in the morning. People on minimum wage or just above are worse off than the majority on welfare benefits while companies rake in obscene profits. Our tax money goes to top up their pitiful wages. So in effect we're subsidising Amazon et al, twice over. Which is completely MENTAL. Shirley we need to properly reward work, put more disposable income into people's pockets, giving them more to spend and thus revive our flagging economy. Dignity of labour, not the serfdom that's becoming the norm? Oh I think so.
|
|
|
Post by notanimby on Nov 26, 2013 6:17:41 GMT -1
The online store, not the river... So it was about working conditions in their Swansea warehouse. Guys on nightshift doing 10.5 hour shifts four times a week. At £8.25 an hour. They smuggled a reporter in who secretly filmed having to walk 11 miles picking items for dispatch while being terrorised by a bleeper that timed their every move. It's called performance targets, apparently. Pretty well known, I think, that Amazon site their warehouses in areas of high unemployment and get govt subsidies accordingly. Welsh and Scottish govts I know have done that. So what's the beef? Well, I'm not 100% convinced their working practices are THAT out of step in comparison to how workers are generally treated in the UKE these days. Though taking three sick days and you're out seems pretty harsh, if not actually illegal.. It does seem to me though that these huge global tax evading companies have it all ways and employees can like it or lump it. THAT, my friends, is the price of saving a quid here and there. The companies are making FORTUNES while the workers are barely rewarded for getting out of bed in the morning. People on minimum wage or just above are worse off than the majority on welfare benefits while companies rake in obscene profits. Our tax money goes to top up their pitiful wages. So in effect we're subsidising Amazon et al, twice over. Which is completely MENTAL. Shirley we need to properly reward work, put more disposable income into people's pockets, giving them more to spend and thus revive our flagging economy. Dignity of labour, not the serfdom that's becoming the norm? Oh I think so. I agree with most of what you say, one bit I dont agree with is that getting rid of a worker for having 3 days sick is illegal The temp staff as highlighted in the programme are not employed by amazon, they are employed by an agency. The agency are contracted by amazon to supply resources to do the work - it is the agencies who sack staff for what you describe, not amazon. If amazon dont like/want one of these agency staff then they tell the agency to supply someone more to their liking - it does mean that you are treating folk as a commodity though There's a huge amazon warehouse in gourock near me, I know a few folk who work there as permies, they seem to enjoy it well enough - same gripes/moans as any other job or employer A friend of mine had a very senior position with amazon UK based down souf - he liked the job well enough but amazon are remarkably tight fisted when it comes to spending money on IT infrastructure - their external comms lines are the cheapest of the cheap and are up and down like a yo-yo - not to worry though they are cheap
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 19:02:16 GMT -1
I agree with most of what you say, one bit I dont agree with is that getting rid of a worker for having 3 days sick is illegal
The temp staff as highlighted in the programme are not employed by amazon, they are employed by an agency. The agency are contracted by amazon to supply resources to do the work - it is the agencies who sack staff for what you describe, not amazon. If amazon dont like/want one of these agency staff then they tell the agency to supply someone more to their liking - it does mean that you are treating folk as a commodity though There's a huge amazon warehouse in gourock near me, I know a few folk who work there as permies, they seem to enjoy it well enough - same gripes/moans as any other job or employer A friend of mine had a very senior position with amazon UK based down souf - he liked the job well enough but amazon are remarkably tight fisted when it comes to spending money on IT infrastructure - their external comms lines are the cheapest of the cheap and are up and down like a yo-yo - not to worry though they are cheap That wasn't clear from the docu, Nota. However, sacking someone for taking three days sick in a three month period, no matter WHO's employing them, is neither reasonable nor, I'd have thought, legal. And if it IS legal, then it shouldn't be. That'd be testament to my point that employers are getting away with murder, while the taxpayer tops up the low wage culture so endemic in the UKE now. I don't believe in jobs for life, I don't believe in over-unionisation either but I do believe if you pay your workforce a decent living wage or more, and treat them as human beings, not robots, then productivity and loyalty rise accordingly. Just my experience, anyways.
|
|
|
Post by notanimby on Nov 26, 2013 19:50:43 GMT -1
I agree with most of what you say, one bit I dont agree with is that getting rid of a worker for having 3 days sick is illegal
The temp staff as highlighted in the programme are not employed by amazon, they are employed by an agency. The agency are contracted by amazon to supply resources to do the work - it is the agencies who sack staff for what you describe, not amazon. If amazon dont like/want one of these agency staff then they tell the agency to supply someone more to their liking - it does mean that you are treating folk as a commodity though There's a huge amazon warehouse in gourock near me, I know a few folk who work there as permies, they seem to enjoy it well enough - same gripes/moans as any other job or employer A friend of mine had a very senior position with amazon UK based down souf - he liked the job well enough but amazon are remarkably tight fisted when it comes to spending money on IT infrastructure - their external comms lines are the cheapest of the cheap and are up and down like a yo-yo - not to worry though they are cheap That wasn't clear from the docu, Nota. However, sacking someone for taking three days sick in a three month period, no matter WHO's employing them, is neither reasonable nor, I'd have thought, legal. And if it IS legal, then it shouldn't be. That'd be testament to my point that employers are getting away with murder, while the taxpayer tops up the low wage culture so endemic in the UKE now. I don't believe in jobs for life, I don't believe in over-unionisation either but I do believe if you pay your workforce a decent living wage or more, and treat them as human beings, not robots, then productivity and loyalty rise accordingly. Just my experience, anyways. You can sack anyone in their first year of employment without giving a reason, for "permie" staff. Short term contract/agency workers are treated slightly different by the law. The workers contract of employment is with the agency, not amazon, if amazon don't want a worker or workers to return then that is heir prerogative , its up to the agency, in theory to keep them working, which won't happen Although obviously a different scenario, I'm covered in my work by exactly the same rules, regulations and laws as the agency workers at amazon. The end client can tell the agency I'm not required anymore and I'm out the door toot sweet, no ifs, no buts. That is why agencies, in my line, tend to employ only contractors who use a limited company, they can get rid of us even easier........... Whilst sympathising with these, for want of a better phrase " cannon fodder employees" it is nothing new in the UK, even for these low skilled manual workers. Do people deserve better? Yes of course they do. But until we establish our independence, this what we are stuck with, don't expect anything changing anytime soon The folks employed in these low skill jobs are the same folks who would be doing similar, low pay, low skill jobs in say manufacturing industries, if we still had such a thing. Only the environment/product has changed. There is not a cats chance in hell of large scale employers in manufacturing returning to Scotland, so this is it just now. Twenty years ago the industrial estate in Gourock, that is home to amazon, hosted he factory of a company called Mimtec, known locally as Grimtec, owned by sir David Murray It was a veritable shithole to work in. Permission to go to loo, had to wear an armband to show you had permission, no talking on production line, it was just in time manufacturing, so if waiting on parts, you had to sit at the line, again no talking, no reading the paper, sometimes for hours. It was raided on a regular basis by the drugs squad because it was full of smakheids. The broo would actually let you sign back on if you chucked it, very unusual to let people do that. Amazon is a paradise compared to that place,
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 21:28:49 GMT -1
Nota, I think we've all had a bellyful of the pathetic race to the bottom that plays off workers and contractors against the 'competition'. People are so fearful now they'd accept just about any crumb from the table, don't you agree? It's time to call a halt and take back control. Hope, not fear, is the way forward. Today marks the start.
|
|
|
Post by bormes on Nov 26, 2013 22:54:09 GMT -1
I have read that the gap between the rich and the poor is at an all time high? If this is true then the last twenty odd years have taught our leaders nothing as big business seems to rule and everything is for the highest profit.
|
|
|
Post by ozneil on Nov 26, 2013 23:26:52 GMT -1
Gees what do you expect with unfettered largely unskilled migration?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 23:55:51 GMT -1
I have read that the gap between the rich and the poor is at an all time high? If this is true then the last twenty odd years have taught our leaders nothing as big business seems to rule and everything is for the highest profit. Indeed it is, Bormes. The UKE is the 8th most unequal country in the world when it comes to the gap between rich and poor.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2013 0:01:16 GMT -1
Gees what do you expect with unfettered largely unskilled migration? Largely unskilled migration? In Scotland? Where do you get that idea from?
|
|
|
Post by ozneil on Nov 27, 2013 0:54:43 GMT -1
Gees what do you expect with unfettered largely unskilled migration? Largely unskilled migration? In Scotland? Where do you get that idea from? As I have said before, until Scotland is a separate country I can only use UK Stats. I believe unskilled migrants from new EU countries are arriving in UK in droves and that the UK still includes Scotland.
|
|
|
Post by notanimby on Nov 27, 2013 6:35:06 GMT -1
Largely unskilled migration? In Scotland? Where do you get that idea from? As I have said before, until Scotland is a separate country I can only use UK Stats. I believe unskilled migrants from new EU countries are arriving in UK in droves and that the UK still includes Scotland. They are not arriving in droves. There are economic migrants congregating in certain areas of UK they may be taking unskilled jobs - but a large percentage of them are far from unskilled. There are, for example, many Poles working in the service industries who have degrees far beyond their current employment status The jobs at the likes of Amazon and this is throughout the UK tend to have local workers at their sites. As Rolo mentioned these sites tend to be in the areas of the highest deprivation - for locals, not immigrants. The "droves" of economic migrants is largely a construct of the loony right wing press like the Daily Heil and The Torygraph It's the usual pish in fact, "them lot comin over here and taking our jobs" In my contact with economic migrants, I've found them to be hard working, conscientious and diligent - in fact in a lot of cases far better workers than the locals who seem to have some daft sense of entitlement Cheap exploitable unskilled labour has always been a feature of UK employment, probably more so in engerlandshire. Its been, over the years, the Irish, Asians, West Indians etc - nothing new
|
|
|
Post by bormes on Nov 27, 2013 16:50:22 GMT -1
In fairness nota, Bliar told us there would only be ten to fifteen thousand East Europeans the last time and there was hundreds of thousands, personally I am of the opinion from meeting many that you are quite correct about the work ethic of many of them and I employed some at above the average wage plus their tips at the time I was running the Pub and Restaurant. However my concern is more about the HUGE influx of people who will NOT mix nor integrate and they are the Islamic community and there is no more hiding behind PC. People that this is not a problem. Regrading this post about the difference between rich and poor, I am surprised at OZ's comment as I did not think the gap should be whether one is skilled or not? I thought one tried to bring up one's standard of living in the country one lived in and that was for EVERYONE in the country regardless of where on the scale one earned a living?
|
|
|
Post by notanimby on Nov 27, 2013 17:25:16 GMT -1
In fairness nota, Bliar told us there would only be ten to fifteen thousand East Europeans the last time and there was hundreds of thousands, personally I am of the opinion from meeting many that you are quite correct about the work ethic of many of them and I employed some at above the average wage plus their tips at the time I was running the Pub and Restaurant. However my concern is more about the HUGE influx of people who will NOT mix nor integrate and they are the Islamic community and there is no more hiding behind PC. People that this is not a problem. Regrading this post about the difference between rich and poor, I am surprised at OZ's comment as I did not think the gap should be whether one is skilled or not? I thought one tried to bring up one's standard of living in the country one lived in and that was for EVERYONE in the country regardless of where on the scale one earned a living? Thats why I made the context of my answer around economic migrants. In engerlandshire a large amount of eastern europeans, poles, latvians etc have made their home in the east anglia area- they are fruitpickers and agricultural labourers who are doing the jobs the locals didnt want. Then some of their more enterprising colleagues started businesses servicing their needs and have become successful too. Now times are hard they are an easy target for the disgruntled - the sort who didnt want the jobs in the first place - well fuck them These people are here, settled and working hard, why should they give up their job and life for some local who didnt want the job in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by ozneil on Nov 27, 2013 21:30:17 GMT -1
From Today's Australian
It is one reason why poor are getting poorer.
Now what do you class Richer in "Rich are getting richer"?
Do you mean greedy bosses exploiting the workers?
or
Do you mean highly skilled people who through training and hard graft are earning a motza? eg Surgeons, top engineers, successful entrepreneurs, etc
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 1:17:21 GMT -1
From Today's Australian It is one reason why poor are getting poorer. Now what do you class Richer in "Rich are getting richer"? Do you mean greedy bosses exploiting the workers? or Do you mean highly skilled people who through training and hard graft are earning a motza? eg Surgeons, top engineers, successful entrepreneurs, etc Oz, listen up ;D David Cameron and the Tories are running petrified of UKIP. The sole reason he's pursuing the EU in his attempt to block access to Romanians and Bulgarians, come Jan 1st 2014, is a knee-jerk reaction to the 'storm' driven by red-top UKE media, in particular the Daily Fail. President of the EU, Jose Manuel Barroso, has said tonight that the EU 's core principle that members of ALL member states have free access to live and work in other member countries will be enforced. The very same principle that allows UKE citizens to live and work in EU countries, as tens of thousands of our people do!
|
|