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Post by notanimby on Nov 30, 2013 20:17:18 GMT -1
Typical avoid the question for another political tirade Think I actually answered your question, you obviously missed the first line. Why don't you tell us then, how wonderful that bitch was..................you seem to have some wonderful insight into it, compared to the folks who actually lived through it. Don't forget to factor in to your lower taxes pish, how the country could support so many unemployed It may have escaped your notice but if thatcher bitch was so good, how come she was and is so despised. Can't recall any other PM of the UK in recent times who generated such joy and celebration on her death. At my current place of work, where everyone of my colleagues were self-employed, on news of her death, actually celebrated. These were everyday normal folks, just rather different from yourself in they knew how bad it was in reality under her They knew the "low tax" nonsense for what it was - complete pish! You repetitively under estimate how much the Scots despised her and her ilk, us And Europeans seem to lead the world in that, Canadians too. Yourself and the yanks seem to be the only foreign folk I've come across who seem to think everyone here is wrong about her, but then again I suppose there's folk here who think skippy was real and sonny could actually converse with her.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 20:20:24 GMT -1
Remind us again Nota of what were the tax rates were under Wilson & Callaghan. A real couple of duds. He an Callaghan (ably assisted by Heath) really fucked up UK. Mind you I owe Wilson, he was the guy that finally persuaded me to come home Higher direct taxation, but much less indirect taxation. But under the three you mentioned they never ever stated they were lowering taxation, unlike the Thatcher bitch who did. It's also been in the media today that the thatcher bitch and her fukwitted brood have been hiding stuff offshore in tax avoiding countries. If she was so good at lowering axes, why would she do that? Ding dong................. Personally I don't have a problem in paying taxes, I don't indulge in off-shore tax avoidance, despite having the opperchancity. I'd much rather the taxes were direct too, saves fuckers like Thatcher trying to rip the shite out of us by not just lying but thinking we're stupid enough to believe her. Off shore tax avoidance should be a criminal offence, you want to live or work here, you pay taxes here, either that or they can fuck off, people like that we can do without. Nota, on the first point, I only have a problem in paying taxes when the UKE government spends them on Trident missiles and bankrolling wars that are none of our business. Like yourself, I've NO problem in paying taxes as long as they're reinvested wisely to the benefit of our society---- not to shore up bank bailouts and the HUGE black hole in the tax take due to avoiders/evaders. It's bloody well about time we rid ourselves of the pariahs for whom money equals status, power and so often now, complete and total exploitation of the majority. ENOUGH! p.s. Oz, for the record the 90% taxation of the most wealthy, in hindsight, was never gonna end well. But you have to put what was THEN, in some kind of context. We are where we are NOW though, and I believe there's a better path forward.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 20:24:45 GMT -1
Typical avoid the question for another political tirade Oz, you don't think the question of taxation and how the tax take's spent is political? REALLY? Pull the other wan... ;D
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Post by ozneil on Nov 30, 2013 20:49:50 GMT -1
Typical avoid the question for another political tirade Think I actually answered your question, you obviously missed the first line. Why don't you tell us then, how wonderful that bitch was..................you seem to have some wonderful insight into it, compared to the folks who actually lived through it. Don't forget to factor in to your lower taxes pish, how the country could support so many unemployed It may have escaped your notice but if thatcher bitch was so good, how come she was and is so despised. Can't recall any other PM of the UK in recent times who generated such joy and celebration on her death. At my current place of work, where everyone of my colleagues were self-employed, on news of her death, actually celebrated. These were everyday normal folks, just rather different from yourself in they knew how bad it was in reality under her They knew the "low tax" nonsense for what it was - complete pish! You repetitively under estimate how much the Scots despised her and her ilk, us And Europeans seem to lead the world in that, Canadians too. Yourself and the yanks seem to be the only foreign folk I've come across who seem to think everyone here is wrong about her, but then again I suppose there's folk here who think skippy was real and sonny could actually converse with her. I dont. I say Wilson and Callaghan were abysmal Your friend Skippy would have been an improvement on them Remind me how many times the hated woman was re-elected by a democratic precess. So in your current place of work they are all self-employed, who trains people to follow on? Is that for others to do?
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Post by bormes on Dec 1, 2013 10:17:34 GMT -1
Well firstly Thatcher was NOT despised by everyone! I know many, many people particularly in the Forces who were proud of how she mad our country feel a bit better about ourselves and how she was seen to stand up to Europe and the US, she then helped with Reagan and the Russian leader bring down the "Wall" Scotland DID suffer OZ under her but there were plenty MP's who could have done more to thwart her behaviour to Scotland. I must admit I was disgusted by the Third World behaviour shown on the Media when she died, it was reminiscent of those in Iraq dancing in the street when he was hung. Unlike nota I do not think we were taxed higher under Thatcher, the highest taxed time in my memory is Bliar, Brown followed by Wilson (Only allowed to go on holiday with a MAXIMUM of £50.) We are now even paying VAT Tax on electricity and gas!! Historically, regardless who we support, labour has always made a mess of the country economically regardless of their promises and the Tories (unfortunately) seem to pull us out of the International mess although we end up with more unemployed. I personally think it is the type of politics we have, it is far too Punch and Judy, we need to work more TOGETHER for the country! that ceates another problem the ego of many would be bruised at having to actually WORK for our country.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 1, 2013 18:29:39 GMT -1
I try and keep clear of UK politics. I dont know enough but can comment bon it when I was there.
One thing Thatcher did was give UK back pride. It was sinking lower and lower under Wilson & Callaghan. Feather bedding of Unions under that pair was rife. From mid 60s to early 80s we had people literally queuing up at the door of Australia House. It slowed under Thatcher. According to latest census we have 1.192 million people here who were born in UK . I think we come second to Canada for migrants from UK. Thats one hell of a lot of people
I think thats called people voting with their feet
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 1:06:49 GMT -1
Well firstly Thatcher was NOT despised by everyone! I know many, many people particularly in the Forces who were proud of how she mad our country feel a bit better about ourselves and how she was seen to stand up to Europe and the US, she then helped with Reagan and the Russian leader bring down the "Wall" Scotland DID suffer OZ under her but there were plenty MP's who could have done more to thwart her behaviour to Scotland. I must admit I was disgusted by the Third World behaviour shown on the Media when she died, it was reminiscent of those in Iraq dancing in the street when he was hung. Unlike nota I do not think we were taxed higher under Thatcher, the highest taxed time in my memory is Bliar, Brown followed by Wilson (Only allowed to go on holiday with a MAXIMUM of £50.) We are now even paying VAT Tax on electricity and gas!! Historically, regardless who we support, labour has always made a mess of the country economically regardless of their promises and the Tories (unfortunately) seem to pull us out of the International mess although we end up with more unemployed. I personally think it is the type of politics we have, it is far too Punch and Judy, we need to work more TOGETHER for the country! that ceates another problem the ego of many would be bruised at having to actually WORK for our country. Well Bormes, let me be honest, I don't believe Thatcher 'stood up to' the US. I think she was quite happy to espouse their Republican warmongering, chest-beating ethic. Given her actions in destroying manufacturing industries that SWATHES of the UK depended upon and her personal ethic of NO COMPASSION for the weak, disabled and downtrodden, I personally despised her values and everything she stood for. That said I personally would never dance on anyone's grave. I'd far rather actively oppose the living who's views I disagree with. As for VAT on energy, I completely agree. VAT is a tax on luxuries, not essentials and why we pay 5% on such a basic commodity as energy is beyond me. And I am campaigning with many others for the removal of VAT on leccy and gas. Can I just agree with you re confrontational Punch and Judy politics. Party A says white, Party B counters with black. It's the party political game and it has nothing, NOTHING to do with the ethic of working together to make things better. And the party political system @ Westminster is just ONE of the reasons I've nailed my colours to the mast re Independence. It's time for a major shake-up. Time to call politicians to account and to MAKE them serve the best interests of those who vote them into power.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 2:11:53 GMT -1
I try and keep clear of UK politics. I dont know enough but can comment bon it when I was there. One thing Thatcher did was give UK back pride. It was sinking lower and lower under Wilson & Callaghan. Feather bedding of Unions under that pair was rife. From mid 60s to early 80s we had people literally queuing up at the door of Australia House. It slowed under Thatcher. According to latest census we have 1.192 million people here who were born in UK . I think we come second to Canada for migrants from UK. Thats one hell of a lot of people I think thats called people voting with their feet Pride in what exactly, Oz? Pride in being little Englanders, pride in some notion of Empire? EH? <Cue soundtrack to Dad's Army or WHAT?> Some might say the intervention of the major unions back in the early 70s was 'feather bedding'. Others might say the 'feather bedding' was in one direction only, that being to the benefit of Tory investors, the already wealthy--- who indeed have continued to 'feather their beds' for four decades now, by increasingly exploitative 'use' of ordinary working people. Where we are now is that taxpayer dosh is being used on tax credits and other top-ups to WORKING people whose wages are so pitifully low that they're actually worse off than if they were on benefits full time. We're SUBSIDISING major employers who pay the absolute minimum and who also evade paying tax. THAT is Thatcher's legacy. Greed is good?
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Post by bormes on Dec 2, 2013 8:26:24 GMT -1
Well in fairness Rolo, there is not much you have said about her that is wrong, other than for a fact the Forces loved her. At the time we had a very split country because so many had support for the ira, our Troops were not allowed to go home in uniform. Members of SF and others were armed even on leave. Telling civilians you were in the Forces was a no no unless you knew them well. The Falklands could have been handled differently yet that is easy in hindsight. Now Bliar came in not long after her, they had 13 years to sort out the "Big Mess" do not say anything about Thatcher and the US, compared to Phony Tony she was a beginner. He had an ENORMOUS win in his election and had a mandate to reform EVERYTHING including Banks. He did Fuck All. He took us into two wars much, much more questionable than the Falklands ( where you will be hard pushed to find ANYONE who fought there to say it was a mistake) these two wars were led by the USA we did NOT need to follow, compare that to Reagan and Thatcher and Gorbachov, they actually did more for World peace, does everyone forget this. Bliar and his ira supporting scum of a wife has bounced round the world justifying his acts and making fortunes from it with lectures. Am I the only one to remember old people were dying of cold under Bliar and brown too, not just the Tories. I say all this because I hate Bliar as much as some hate Thatcher and History WILL show Bliar will have been the WORST we have ever had and one of the reasons I feel this is just because as Rolo rightly said, Thatcher DID treat Scotland in the way she says so when Bliar came in the hope was there for better with all his rhetoric and the opposite happened. Even at that the disgusting display of dancing on her photos in the street is third world and not the way we should behave, I would not do that to Bliar or his wife, no not even "Dr" John Reid!!
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Post by ozneil on Dec 2, 2013 18:28:53 GMT -1
Pride in becoming a successful country again after becoming an economic basket case under the 3 previous PMS (Wilson, Heath & Callaghan). Your economy recovered under Thatcher and once again you became a respected nation.
At one stage it looked like some Union leaders were deliberately trying to bring down capitalism It has been suggested they were under orders from Moscow to do so. It was the height of the Cold War so it is possible. They used the same tactic from 1939 -41 to slow down the war effort so why not again. It stopped when Germany invaded USSR
The government seemed unable or unwilling to control them.
Ir absolutely shocked me to find that Oz was exporting coal to UK
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 19:21:28 GMT -1
Well in fairness Rolo, there is not much you have said about her that is wrong, other than for a fact the Forces loved her. At the time we had a very split country because so many had support for the ira, our Troops were not allowed to go home in uniform. Members of SF and others were armed even on leave. Telling civilians you were in the Forces was a no no unless you knew them well. The Falklands could have been handled differently yet that is easy in hindsight. Now Bliar came in not long after her, they had 13 years to sort out the "Big Mess" do not say anything about Thatcher and the US, compared to Phony Tony she was a beginner. He had an ENORMOUS win in his election and had a mandate to reform EVERYTHING including Banks. He did Fuck All. He took us into two wars much, much more questionable than the Falklands ( where you will be hard pushed to find ANYONE who fought there to say it was a mistake) these two wars were led by the USA we did NOT need to follow, compare that to Reagan and Thatcher and Gorbachov, they actually did more for World peace, does everyone forget this. Bliar and his ira supporting scum of a wife has bounced round the world justifying his acts and making fortunes from it with lectures. Am I the only one to remember old people were dying of cold under Bliar and brown too, not just the Tories. I say all this because I hate Bliar as much as some hate Thatcher and History WILL show Bliar will have been the WORST we have ever had and one of the reasons I feel this is just because as Rolo rightly said, Thatcher DID treat Scotland in the way she says so when Bliar came in the hope was there for better with all his rhetoric and the opposite happened. Even at that the disgusting display of dancing on her photos in the street is third world and not the way we should behave, I would not do that to Bliar or his wife, no not even "Dr" John Reid!! No disagreement from ME on your very apt description of the Blair government, Bormes ;D New Labour let the Labour Party and all of us down in a spectacularly big way. And I can't see ANY stalwart Lab supporters really believing the latest bunch of cretins are gonna be any better. They've become Tories. AND they're panicking at the prospect of Indy, because without Scottish votes they'll never be the majority party in the UKE for the foreseeable future. Re dancing on graves, yes, I agree. Hardly an edifying spectacle.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 19:40:22 GMT -1
Pride in becoming a successful country again after becoming an economic basket case under the 3 previous PMS (Wilson, Heath & Callaghan). Your economy recovered under Thatcher and once again you became a respected nation. At one stage it looked like some Union leaders were deliberately trying to bring down capitalism It has been suggested they were under orders from Moscow to do so. It was the height of the Cold War so it is possible. They used the same tactic from 1939 -41 to slow down the war effort so why not again. It stopped when Germany invaded USSR The government seemed unable or unwilling to control them. Ir absolutely shocked me to find that Oz was exporting coal to UK If you call becoming a *successful* and *respected* country again resulted in the FACTS that; 1) the divide between rich and poor kicked off spectacularly in the 80s, 2) that banks ran out of control and impoverished the majority, 3) that personal debt levels became (and still are) unmanageable for many, 4) that house prices rose beyond any reasonable semblance of affordability, 5) that every household needed two earners to just survive and 6) that hundreds of thousands of UKE nationals DESPISED her harsh policies, then maybe you're right about that, Oz. I don't want capitalism destroyed, that would be silly. I do want to see it tempered with a social welfare agenda though, and FAR less of a divide between the uber rich and everyone else. And I think we have the best (possibly only?) chance to do that next year
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Post by ozneil on Dec 4, 2013 9:16:33 GMT -1
Very emotive stuff Rolo but is it right? didnt a lot of the things you are talking about happen under Wilson, Callaghan and Blair?
I am hazy on UK politics but didnt most of what you say start long before Thatcher and continue long after she was beaten. But as I say Im hazy on UK politics and try to steer clear of them
I know it was happening before we left. "You've never had it so good" , "live now pay later" etc. Thatcher was Pay later
After Callaghan's feather bedding harsh measures had to be taken. It is the same after every labour government and their big spending. Of course some people hated her, she burst their comfortable little unsustainable bubble and confronted them with reality.
Great to have a scape-goat It saves having to be looking too hard at reality
So what was the alternative?
Also for some one so hated how come she was re-elected? How many times was it? obviously the majority of constituencies agreed with her.
But as I say I only see it from a foreigner's perspective
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 21:49:31 GMT -1
Very emotive stuff Rolo but is it right? didnt a lot of the things you are talking about happen under Wilson, Callaghan and Blair? I am hazy on UK politics but didnt most of what you say start long before Thatcher and continue long after she was beaten. But as I say Im hazy on UK politics and try to steer clear of them I know it was happening before we left. "You've never had it so good" , "live now pay later" etc. Thatcher was Pay later After Callaghan's feather bedding harsh measures had to be taken. It is the same after every labour government and their big spending. Of course some people hated her, she burst their comfortable little unsustainable bubble and confronted them with reality. Great to have a scape-goat It saves having to be looking too hard at reality So what was the alternative? Also for some one so hated how come she was re-elected? How many times was it? obviously the majority of constituencies agreed with her. But as I say I only see it from a foreigner's perspective You're right there, Oz. You're hazy on UKE politics! And you're yanking my chain... *Some people hated her*? Yes indeed. Because she was brutal. She favoured the rich over the ordinary person. She engineered an unholy alliance with the US which resulted in war mongering, the destruction of manufacturing industries and the accession of 80s wide boys, all of whom were total fecking chancers. She was elected into power by people who were just like her. In the main, by the relatively wealthy ( or those that aspired to be) in the South East of England. She burst NOBODY's bubble. Her attack on the Unions was PERSONAL and all about ego, and we're seeing the exact same again as workers in the UKE now see their employment conditions plummet under the Tories. She was vicious and she was nasty. And her current compadres in the Westminster government are doing her skewed values proud. They're panicking now cos they realise Indy's a real, alive and kicking prospect. I feel SO sorry for the vast majority of English/Welsh/Irish folks who really haven't a clue what the Tories are about to do to them. Indy Scotland: the place where we WILL get the government WE voted for.
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Post by ozneil on Dec 5, 2013 23:06:37 GMT -1
Moi!!! "Yank yer chain" nevaiiiirrrrr! The very idea! BTW how many times was the re-elected by the poor ignorant deluded Brits PS you are competing on a world market and if goods too dear you dont sell and you go bust unless you can reduce costs or provide something unique like Haig Dimple. Your financial sector is world class. For years it was only the IQ challenged that would buy Brit cars
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