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Post by notanimby on Aug 4, 2014 10:01:59 GMT -1
As today is the anniversary of the start of WW1 here are some quotes from the late Harry Patch to put Cameron's "celebrations" into a bit of perspective:-
"All those young lives lost in a war which ended across a table. Where's the sense in that?"
"War is organised murder and nothing else....politicians who took us to war should have been given the guns and told to settle their differences themselves, instead of organising nothing better than legalised mass murder"
“ Its the calculated and condoned slaughter of human beings".
I remember watching TV interviews with this man, despite his years he was as sharp as a tack, he gave short shrift to the likes of Bliar, Bush & Cameron and their wars - no jingoism, no triumphalism and nothing but contempt for those mentioned who to easily lead folk to war.
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Post by bormes on Aug 4, 2014 11:47:20 GMT -1
He is mainly right in my opinion.
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Post by ozneil on Aug 4, 2014 21:03:30 GMT -1
A war which should never have been!
A war on the other side of the world which we should never have been in!
A war led by incompetent generals!
A war where we had 16% casualties!
BUT we owe it to honour the brave men who fought.
ANZACS were all volunteers all 400,000 of them
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Post by bormes on Aug 4, 2014 21:25:08 GMT -1
Yes well said Oz. Basically two spoilt brats fell out with each other over overseas expansions. The Serbian assassination was the spark used to start hostilities. Royal pricks, As usual the ordinary man dies for the elite. Keep the status quo!!
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Post by ozneil on Aug 4, 2014 23:44:22 GMT -1
From the Ozneil little black book of useless information:- The first shot of WW1 fired by Commonwealth Forces was an artillery shot fired across the bows of a German freighter, SS Pfalz. trying to make a run for it out of Port Philip Bay (Melbourne). She stopped and was interned Renamed HMT BOORARA A bit for the revolutionaries amongst us Unlike their British colleagues, common Australian soldiers were not treated like ignorant donkeys, but like individuals who will function better in a team when they know their collective aim. The Australian lieutenant-general Sir John Monash said:
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Post by bormes on Aug 5, 2014 7:17:08 GMT -1
And Monash is right!! The discipline thing is really because of the way the training was always done, men were considered to be incapable of thought, unless one of their "betters" could explain to them, hence training by numbers with no thought, only instant reaction was the way. S.F., are trained in Monash's way. Slim, along with Stirling changed things to be the way training is done now in SF.
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Post by ozneil on Aug 5, 2014 21:35:55 GMT -1
The Brit "establishment" didnt like John Monash He was not quite the "right type dont you know" He was not a regular soldier but Civil Engineer therefore couldnt be expected etc etc but worse than that he was a Jew and his parents were Prussian Jews. He was a brilliant leader and tactition who cared for his men After earlier fuck ups the Australian Government insisted the all Australian & NZ troops were formed as a separate army under Monash. Haig fought this bitterly but pressure was brought to bear If interested might like to read this on Monash www.convictcreations.com/history/monash.htmlBill Slim became a very popular Governor General of Australia. He was the only Brit that was asked to do a second term... Sadly he declined
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 18:54:53 GMT -1
As today is the anniversary of the start of WW1 here are some quotes from the late Harry Patch to put Cameron's "celebrations" into a bit of perspective:- "All those young lives lost in a war which ended across a table. Where's the sense in that?" "War is organised murder and nothing else....politicians who took us to war should have been given the guns and told to settle their differences themselves, instead of organising nothing better than legalised mass murder" “ Its the calculated and condoned slaughter of human beings". I remember watching TV interviews with this man, despite his years he was as sharp as a tack, he gave short shrift to the likes of Bliar, Bush & Cameron and their wars - no jingoism, no triumphalism and nothing but contempt for those mentioned who to easily lead folk to war. Harry Patch, WW1 veteran, didn't speak about his experiences until he turned 100, I think. He died just a few years ago, and left us with the wisest of words. David Cameron had to retract his plans for 'celebrations' into plans for 'commemorations'. He himself, along with his fellow Tories Nick Clegg and Ed Milliband, attended a commemoration in George Square on Monday. The Square, of course, had been sealed off to us ordinary people for the duration. So I didn't get to walk over on my usual route to work. I pass the Cenotaph every day and there's always fresh flowers or wreaths put there by you know, ordinary people who remember in their own way. 500,000 or so Scots fought in WW1, not all are mentioned on the memorial. In Central Station there's a memorial to the Scots fallen in WW2, including Mr Rolo's grandfather. His own father was in a restricted profession, being an engineer, and my own father came home safe in 1945, having voluntarily joined the RAF at 17 three years previous. There's true respect...and there's respect put on for the cameras.. Let them send their OWN to the frontline, I say. My late dad never ever spoke to me or the family about his experiences in WW2. This seemed to be a common thing, certainly many friends my age have said the same.
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Post by ozneil on Aug 9, 2014 0:07:43 GMT -1
Mrs Oz was researching her family tree and got this lovely response from the Commonwealth War Graves People about her uncle who was killed in WW1 By Coincidence his grand nephew , our nephew, served for 20 years in the RHF the successors to the HLI I lost relatives in both World Wars
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 2:26:04 GMT -1
Mrs Oz's uncle was born in 1898?
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Post by ozneil on Aug 9, 2014 2:40:23 GMT -1
Mrs Oz's uncle was born in 1898? Yep Her mum was born in 1910 the youngest of 6 kids Andrew was the second and to make things sadder the only male. Incidently her cousin lived there until recently when he retired to Arran
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 3:15:51 GMT -1
Died at 19 at Ypres.
19 FFS! I still can't fathom my own dad's decision to sign up at 17.
They were just children themselves! It's fucking HEARTBREAKING.
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Post by ozneil on Aug 9, 2014 3:50:05 GMT -1
Died at 19 at Ypres. 19 FFS! I still can't fathom my own dad's decision to sign up at 17. They were just children themselves! It's fucking HEARTBREAKING. It is indeed very and so bloody needless! I hate politicians!!!!! My aunt's fiance was killed in France in WW1 ..... She never married. My mother never re-married but that was WW2
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Post by notanimby on Aug 9, 2014 8:15:18 GMT -1
When I was around 7/8/9 I useedd to go to swimming club in port glasgow baths of a friday evening, every friday when we were coming out, a group of elderly ( absolutely ancient to someone my then age) men from the local "looney bin" were coming in - one of them would only walk a few steps then start ranting incoherently whilst trying to dive to the ground, followed by tears snotters and wailing. Obviously a wee bit scary for the weans around at the time
Anyways my dad explained in the car later, that he was a shell-shock victim of WW1 who had never recovered from his ordeal - thing is, nearly 50 years later I still remember that auld guy as clear as day, if I can remember something like that 50 years on - what nightmares was he suffering?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 18:06:36 GMT -1
Didn't it used to be that men suffering shellshock in WW1 were shot as cowards by their own side?
I also remember family talk post-WW2, from when I was maybe 10 or so: where conscientious objectors (COs) were utterly despised and regarded as cowards.
Maybe some were? I don't know. Just seems to me they were maybe quite smart in their refusal to take part in someone else's war?
ps I meant to ask, Nota, did that poor man's state of mind colour your own views as you grew up?
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