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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2011 22:40:15 GMT -1
Three cheers, everyone! The solution to people flinging themselves off bridges has been found, here in Scotland at the Erskine Bridge! Put big barriers up so they can't climb over. Simple. Holy sh*tting f*ck Now let me get this right; some soul who can bear their distress no longer finds their way to a bridge only to find a big fuck off barrier. So they're just gonna go "Damn, how inconvenient, I'll just go home and forget all about it", yes? Bejasus, the staggering ignorance of those who believe this is in any way a helpful preventative measure is beyond belief. Are we now to expect an extension of this to all bridges in Glasgow over the Clyde and Kelvin? All bridges over the motorway? Shall we fence in the Clyde down both sides of the river for a hundred miles and all the canals as well? What about train and subway stations? Shall we also ban all drugs, prescription or over the counter? Household knives perhaps? Call me stupid but people who want to take their lives will find a way. Would it not be just a bit more humane to offer a helping hand while they're still alive? Or is that more expensive than building a big fuck off concrete barrier or two? <disgusted>
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Post by notanimby on Nov 8, 2011 22:52:29 GMT -1
A friend of mine chukked himself aff it in at the start of August - dont think the barriers would have put him aff - jist slowed him doon a bit.
No one knows why either, as the guy had everything to live for
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Post by Sir Henry Rawlinson on Nov 9, 2011 4:42:11 GMT -1
Even being slowed down increases the chance of cctv spotting someone and sending friendly blue light.
Reducing access to opportunity/method does have an efffect.
Not all suicide hotspots can be madesafe, but no reason why they can't try.
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Post by notanimby on Nov 9, 2011 8:00:03 GMT -1
Even being slowed down increases the chance of cctv spotting someone and sending friendly blue light. Reducing access to opportunity/method does have an efffect. Not all suicide hotspots can be madesafe, but no reason why they can't try. am sometimes of ra opinion, if sumwan wants to top themselves who are we to stop them. HArd bit is understanding why they done it
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 18:08:11 GMT -1
Even being slowed down increases the chance of cctv spotting someone and sending friendly blue light. Reducing access to opportunity/method does have an efffect. Not all suicide hotspots can be madesafe, but no reason why they can't try. Norm, I take your point. Do you know of any evidence that might prove that reducing access has the effect of stopping the vast majority of suicidal people from killing themselves? Do we fence in or ban every potential method people might use to do away with themselves? No. Why might that be? I'm sorry but this Erskine Bridge development strikes me as a classic case of shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. Led by local politicians who desperately need to be seen to be 'doing' something. IMV, highly publicised knee-jerk reactions like this one insult everyone's intelligence. I believe the real issue here is that there's not anything LIKE the right amount of resources being put into mental health. Plenty of interventions on physical health--yet mentally ill people are still stigmatised, IMV, despite the best efforts of those working with scant resources. Yet one in four of us will suffer from some type of mental illness throughout our lives and I'd wager the vast majority of them are too bloody terrified to seek the help they know they need. Sorry for ranting but it makes me furious that such trite solutions are being brought to bear
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Post by yonzabam on Nov 9, 2011 18:39:13 GMT -1
If they can't jump off the bridge, they'll just walk in front of a lorry instead, and gie some poor lorry driver post traumatic stress disorder and a line for six months off work. Also, the bridge will be closed while the remains are cleared. Better they jump, imo.
Major depression is the main reason why people commit suicide. Things may be going wrong in their lives and they'll blame these 'external' problems to make their actions seem rational, but it's an internal problem in the brain.
You don't have 'everything to live for' if your brain isn't producing serotonin. Serotonin is produced in a small bunch of neurons called the 'raphe nuclei'. From these cells, it's transported throughout the brain. If the raphe nuclei malfunction, serotonin won't be produced. It's been found that people with major depression have inflammation in the raphe nuclei.
This is a similar situation to that seen in type 1 diabetes, in which an inflammatory process in pancreatic beta cells causes those cells to stop producing insulin. Eventually, the cells die off. Type 1 diabetes is recognised as an autoimmune disease. Maybe further research will identify major depression as an autoimmune disease, too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 20:38:15 GMT -1
If they can't jump off the bridge, they'll just walk in front of a lorry instead, and gie some poor lorry driver post traumatic stress disorder and a line for six months off work. Also, the bridge will be closed while the remains are cleared. Better they jump, imo. Major depression is the main reason why people commit suicide. Things may be going wrong in their lives and they'll blame these 'external' problems to make their actions seem rational, but it's an internal problem in the brain. You don't have 'everything to live for' if your brain isn't producing serotonin. Serotonin is produced in a small bunch of neurons called the 'raphe nuclei'. From these cells, it's transported throughout the brain. If the raphe nuclei malfunction, serotonin won't be produced. It's been found that people with major depression have inflammation in the raphe nuclei. This is a similar situation to that seen in type 1 diabetes, in which an inflammatory process in pancreatic beta cells causes those cells to stop producing insulin. Eventually, the cells die off. Type 1 diabetes is recognised as an autoimmune disease. Maybe further research will identify major depression as an autoimmune disease, too. Excellent post, Yonza. It seems to me even in these enlightened times that there's still a lack of acceptance out there in Joe Public land that depression is a physical illness related to lack of seratonin. Does it not change the person's perception to the point that they feel completely hopeless----no matter whether they have (by external opinion) everything to live for? IMO depression's become an overused word, oft used to describe temporary states of unhappiness. True depression is something else entirely and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. (Actually I might) The fact that so many are helped by anti depressant drugs that reinstate seratonin levels has to prove the case that a chemical imbalance can be corrected. No matter whether it was causal ( from life events) or endogenous (possible reasons explained by Y above) Which is why it infuriates me that people celebrate silly notions of suicide prevention as being a solution. Ban everything! Make everything 'safe'! Yeah, that'll work
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 21:18:40 GMT -1
And by the way, it's a complete fallacy that fatalities due to paracetamol abuse have fallen for the sole reason that it was decreed that the packets are now smaller. Totally idiotic argument. 16 paracetamol is actually enough to kill you and you can buy as many 16-packs as you want in any High St, Anytown There are less fatalities from paracetamol abuse NOT because the packets are smaller but because the treatment for severe overdoses is well advanced from what it used to be. People can now survive the liver damage it causes who wouldn't have even 10 years ago. So yeah fatalities might be down, but suicidal tendencies aren't. Ask any A&E doctor. Or George Parsonage.
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Post by westender on Nov 10, 2011 22:13:59 GMT -1
I've always found it immenseley depressing that folk who haven't a fucking clue what's going on in a suicidal person's head, think they do have a clue, and keep coming up with such breathtakingly silly so-called preventative measures - and such breathtakingly banal excuses for their silly measures.
They haven't a clue. Not a scintilla of a clue, as to what goes on in such a head.
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Post by westender on Nov 10, 2011 22:41:44 GMT -1
Major depression is the main reason why people commit suicide. Things may be going wrong in their lives and they'll blame these 'external' problems to make their actions seem rational, but it's an internal problem in the brain. Um. Are you saying that suicide is irrational? I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Suicide can be the result of hyper rationality; hyper logic. I agree. However, my understanding is that our understanding of what depression is and how antidepressants work is not that clear cut... that serotonin's role is not that simple. This guy's blog is quite interesting (well, I found it so as a layperson): "...the idea that depression is caused primarily by a serotonin “imbalance” is a description of the processes underlying the disorder so simplified it renders itself inaccurate.... neuroscientificallychallenged.blogspot.com/2008/04/serotonin-hypothesis-and-neurogenesis.html Maybe.... it might do away with the nonsense of medical professionals prescribing gabbing to strangers (sorry, "counselling") as a cure for chemical imbalances casing havoc in the brain. I mean, wtf is that all about! I definitely think there's more of it about now than there's ever been, as well. What's fucking up our heads?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 23:36:29 GMT -1
I've always found it immenseley depressing that folk who haven't a fucking clue what's going on in a suicidal person's head, think they do have a clue, and keep coming up with such breathtakingly silly so-called preventative measures - and such breathtakingly banal excuses for their silly measures. They haven't a clue. Not a scintilla of a clue, as to what goes on in such a head. Seconded. There's aye those with some paltry diploma or HNC or whatever who seemingly never tire of wearing their certificates on their sleeve and consider themselves 'experts' and proceed to talk down at people from their 'lofty' position of quasi-academia. Some people are so thick they don't even know they're thick. That's the fecking tragedy. Unfortunately it's often people like this who inveigle their way into policy-making.
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Post by peony on Nov 11, 2011 0:12:16 GMT -1
I'm not an expert, by any means, but I am a survivor of clinical depression. I will do anything, ANYTHING, to keep from going back there.
An anti-depressant, called Ascendin, saved my life. Every morning I woke up and wondered if I would survive the day. If I had not managed to hang on it would never have been because of a rational decision to commit suicide. What directed me to a doctor and to treatment was a nice woman I met at a conference. We fell to chatting about a book called Women and Madness by Phyllis Chesler. The next morning there was a knock on my door and it was this woman who had driven 70 miles to hand me a book she had promised to mail me. She thought I shouldn't wait to read it. She was right. Two days later I was at the doctor's office.
That book was: Unfinished Business - Pressure Points in the Lives of Women by Maggie Scarf.
"That light we see is burning in my hall. How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world."
W Shakespeare
Clinical depression is a deep dark lonely hole, impossible to dig out of without help.
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Post by westender on Nov 11, 2011 1:03:02 GMT -1
Thanks for sharing that, peony.
Amongst the hardest things, when feeling worthless or otherwise off your head, can be the agonies of encounters with goodhearted people.
It's hard, when you stumble upon kindness.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2011 1:21:46 GMT -1
I'm not an expert, by any means, but I am a survivor of clinical depression. I will do anything, ANYTHING, to keep from going back there. An anti-depressant, called Ascendin, saved my life. Every morning I woke up and wondered if I would survive the day. If I had not managed to hang on it would never have been because of a rational decision to commit suicide. What directed me to a doctor and to treatment was a nice woman I met at a conference. We fell to chatting about a book called Women and Madness by Phyllis Chesler. The next morning there was a knock on my door and it was this woman who had driven 70 miles to hand me a book she had promised to mail me. She thought I shouldn't wait to read it. She was right. Two days later I was at the doctor's office. That book was: Unfinished Business - Pressure Points in the Lives of Women by Maggie Scarf. "That light we see is burning in my hall. How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world." W Shakespeare Clinical depression is a deep dark lonely hole, impossible to dig out of without help. Like yourself, Peony, I'm no expert either ;D. I'll leave that to the legions of people that deem themselves so. I had two pretty awful troughs of clinical depression in my 20s. There were days I woke up deeply disappointed to be still alive and having to face another 18 hours of consciousness. I craved oblivion, yet wasn't just quite at the point of being brave enough to achieve it I think there is a perception that taking anti-depressants leads to zombieness, a barrier to being a thinking-feeling person. Yes I think some of them can do that-- until you find one that works for you. I was prescribed Seroxat which worked for me. It was more of a leveller than a tranquilliser--an enabler, not a disabler. But though.......30 years later, I'm still undecided about who is the braver. Those that battle on or those who opt to leave us. I guess we all have our crutches, whether it be books, art, kindness of strangers or whatever. Unsuprisingly I take comfort from music. And in particular, this; www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijZRCIrTgQc&ob=av3e
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Post by bormes on Nov 11, 2011 8:16:33 GMT -1
Now, I sincerely mean this, you are very brave lassies telling your private business and I am touched by your honesty, well done you all.
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