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Post by bormes on Jun 19, 2011 8:25:52 GMT -1
Don't feel so intimidated Stan, my point was agreement with the two posters mentioned. Does any problem with my punctuation or grammar make me a lesser person? So sorry I am not as clever as you seem to think one should be to be able to post on here. You remind me of another person whom I came across when I first started on a forum. He was so concerned with punctuation, spelling etc., He thought anyone who could not spell or write correctly was some sort of lesser person, he was a kind of a snob and he should have know better considering the job he did.
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Post by westender on Jun 19, 2011 12:19:21 GMT -1
I think both Nota and Heidie have it correct. Stan you move in exalted company!! I do indeed. The above notwithstanding, it's possible you have a point to make. If you manage, unlikely as that sounds, to work out what it is - feel free to share. Don't worry about the niceties of spelling, punctuation or grammar (as if you'd start now). I do wish the bitter, anti- Scottish, cringeing Lieboor supporting trolls would actually deal with the points at hand when cornered, rather than behaving like sulking primary school kids.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 20:24:44 GMT -1
I'll argue with you Rolo. I think your whole welfare system is arse for elbow. Surely it would be better to encourage those that can pay (Stan's elite) to pay & make more ££s available for those that cant. As an example take medicines. If someone is earning over $50,000 they pay full value up to $1,500.00 Below $50,000.00 they get a Commonwealth card & get their medicines at a fixed price If they are on Welfare or an OAP like Heidie they get medicines free. The same applies to all "welfare payments" Tertiary Educations works on a different system Well, it's good to know someone's prepared to discuss contentious issues rather than resort to insulting other posters and answering NANE of the reasonable questions put to them, ;D Can I ask you, OZ, how is 'income' verified when people make claims for exemption on their medical expenses? Is it self certificating or are checks made? What does the bureaucracy cost in relation to the income from paid scrips? Two of the reasons I joined, and work for, the SNP is their policies on social issues such as health and education. I believe investing in them is valuable not only for our well-being but also our future strength as a country. I believe that people on average household incomes might struggle to afford tert ed for their kids at the rates proposed in say, England. Sorry son, we can't afford to send you to uni? Go get a job you're overqualified for or sign on instead? I think not. I believe that learning should be based on ability--- not the ability to pay. And likewise I believe that healthcare should be free at the point of need--- and not the ability to pay. Do we WANT people putting off going to the doc when ill because they have to pay for treatment? Is that not shortsighted and might it not end up costing more in the long term, not only for the ill person but also the taxpayer? Also you could say it's swings and roundabouts; those on above average earnings COULD afford scrips but then have less disposable income to spend, which impacts on retail/vat income. There's no such thing as a fair tax system of course but there is a huge swathe of massive wealth going untaxed at present. THAT is what needs addressed here, not the odd few quid/dollars in the pocket of the average person.
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Post by ozneil on Jun 20, 2011 21:37:41 GMT -1
Ok Rolo
It is assumed that everyone can pay their own way.
If you require Government assistance you have to prove it.
You go to "Centrelink" which covers most welfare issues & apply. Your income is proved by presentation of your personal tax assessment (issued by tax office) & fill in a form on assets which may or may not be checked. The level of help Government gives is Dependent on wealth or lack thereof.
If you fiddle it & are caught (quite likely) you have to repay all monies + interest & a horrific fine.
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Post by stan on Jun 20, 2011 22:04:58 GMT -1
Don't feel so intimidated Stan, my point was agreement with the two posters mentioned. Does any problem with my punctuation or grammar make me a lesser person? So sorry I am not as clever as you seem to think one should be to be able to post on here. You remind me of another person whom I came across when I first started on a forum. He was so concerned with punctuation, spelling etc., He thought anyone who could not spell or write correctly was some sort of lesser person, he was a kind of a snob and he should have know better considering the job he did. Maybe you're right. Perhaps there is no point in placing value on education. I'd have to disagree.
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Post by ozneil on Jun 20, 2011 23:45:11 GMT -1
Rolo To continue
Health Everyone is taxed 1.5% of their income to pay for health care. For that you can get "free" doctor & hospital care.
As an incitement to free up the "Public"System people are encouraged (By tax breaks) to take out "Private Health Insurance"
I can only talk about my case I pay about $80 (say £50) a month Insurance in addtion to the 1.5% with a $250.00 excess PA on hospital bills.
OK an example:- A few moths ago I started peeing blood. Phoned up doc. Got an appointment (no queues). She said could be an infection or more likely Prostate trouble gave me a strong anti-biotic. Didnt work went back & she arranged an appointment with Kris an urologist Appointment made for Tuesady following week but in interim sent we for an X-ray & Ultrasound . Saw Kris was told I had enlarged Prostate & and a bloody big bladder stone he would either operate or work internally he wouldnt know till he started ... which hospital did I want? The Mater (nuns) The San (7th day Adventist) or North Shore Private. I chose North Shore Private, nearest home. Couple of phone calls & told to go in on Friday week lunch time & he would operate about 4pm. In hospital I had a private room with en-suite. Operation was when & as he said it was . He did a complete re-bore & broke up stone from outside.
What woud be time-scale under NHS?
Total Costs to me AFTER insurance
Doc $35 Ultra sound & X-ray Nil Surgeon & hospital $250 (excess) Something else in hospital $25
PS (or in this case peees S) I chose my own doctor & she gave me the options of 4 surgeons of whom she strongly recommended Kris. Could have gone for a second opinion but as both Alenna & Kris said exactly the same thing I didnt see the point.
PPS Kris gave me a photo of the stone about 1.25inches diameter & 1.2" thick. He told nurse I had a big one & I was quite flattered till I realised he was talking about the stone
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Post by bormes on Jun 21, 2011 8:04:33 GMT -1
Firstly let me say I am glad you had no really serious issue.
That sounded like a very efficient and well done job all round.
Regardless of politics I suspect our lot would love to have a system like that which actually works but our problem seems to be politics, we have the quality in our doctors and nurses etc just not the political will to make it work.
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Post by westender on Jun 21, 2011 18:25:45 GMT -1
Herald today: Support for independence is on the rise "SUPPORT for independence is on the rise again in the wake of the SNP’s election victory, a new poll has found. The number of people who said they would back Scotland breaking away from the rest of the UK in a referendum has risen six points to 37% in 18 months.Pollsters TNS-BMRB questioned 1022 voters across Scotland after Alex Salmond’s party won a majority at the Holyrood elections on May 5. Chris Eynon of TNS-BMRB said: “While it is recognised that this poll does not take into account other options relating to increased powers for the Scottish Parliament and the fact that these might be included in a future referendum … it does provide a stark measure of how attitudes towards independence per se have moved since the SNP first came to power in 2007 and announced their intentions in this direction. “On the headline level, it would appear that the independence cause has received a boost from the SNP’s recent election victory." www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/support-for-independence-growing-1.1105921 ;D It's comin yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 19:19:58 GMT -1
Firstly let me say I am glad you had no really serious issue. That sounded like a very efficient and well done job all round. Amen to that ;D We have BUPA here, Oz, often as a perk in the salary packages of senior employees and of course there are people who opt in as well by paying their premiums which are increasingly expensive as we age. I would just point out though that in Scotland, particularly the Central belt, we have very serious problems with the general health of the population and thus the demand on our NHS is very stretched. By investing in the health of our people, with treatment free at the point of need-- plus all the new screening programmes such as mammograms and bowel cancer testing for the over 50s and free annual healthcare checks--- it all amounts to trying to prevent problems occurring or at least catching them early while still treatable. However the problems we have here in Scotland are threatening to overcome the NHS; obesity, alcohol and tobacco abuse are the three biggest baaad guys. There's also evidence emerging that certain cancers are triggered by lack of vitamin D and other essential vitamins due to our lack of sunshine and bad diet. I'd be the first to suggest to the SNP that preventative measures such as a £300 sunshine holiday allowance for each person per year might save fortunes in the long run. I'm serious! ;D
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Post by westender on Jun 21, 2011 19:53:14 GMT -1
I'd be the first to suggest to the SNP that preventative measures such as a £300 sunshine holiday allowance for each person per year might save fortunes in the long run. I'm serious! ;D ;D Naw. Let folk see Scotland properly first. Said it before and I'll say it again - subsided trips for all on the Waverley, and compulsory tramping trips to the highlands & islands for every able bodied sort every year. And all schoolweans to muck in on farms at harvest time. Character formin!
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Post by ozneil on Jun 21, 2011 21:10:44 GMT -1
Firstly let me say I am glad you had no really serious issue. . THANKS NO half as glad as me Its a pleasure peeing again & no having to get up in the middle of the night
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Post by ozneil on Jun 21, 2011 21:16:37 GMT -1
Hi Rolo
I think the major difference in our welfare systems is yours is universal open to all with no distinctions while ours is based on need with people who can afford it being encouraged to opt out. Still pay for it. It helps free up public facilities for the needy.
The wealthy don't get any pensions & pensions are graduated dependent on circumstances. It means, in theory, more cash is available to the needy.
The main exception to the above is the Vets "Gold card" which means ex-war vets get all government services free.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 22:15:04 GMT -1
I'd be the first to suggest to the SNP that preventative measures such as a £300 sunshine holiday allowance for each person per year might save fortunes in the long run. I'm serious! ;D ;D Naw. Let folk see Scotland properly first. Said it before and I'll say it again - subsided trips for all on the Waverley, and compulsory tramping trips to the highlands & islands for every able bodied sort every year. And all schoolweans to muck in on farms at harvest time. Character formin! That's all good and well, Westie, but you can do all the above any time of the year. Tramping about in the pissing rain in June or July or August is not character forming, it's bloody well MISERABLE. AND it's actually of little value when physically people NEED a degree of Vit D from sunshine to be in the best of health. Recent medical advice has been reversed only this week, it's now decreed that going out in the weak Scottish sun without slipping slapping or even slopping is a good thing. We've become so paranoid about sun damage which doesn't apply to Scotland, that rickets and other vitamin D deficiencies are increasing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 22:38:21 GMT -1
Hi Rolo I think the major difference in our welfare systems is yours is universal open to all with no distinctions while ours is based on need with people who can afford it being encouraged to opt out. Still pay for it. It helps free up public facilities for the needy. The wealthy don't get any pensions & pensions are graduated dependent on circumstances. It means, in theory, more cash is available to the needy. The main exception to the above is the Vets "Gold card" which means ex-war vets get all government services free. Hi Oz, Where to start (head in hands). Our welfare system is not universal or anything like it. Only a few benefits such as state pensions and child benefit are. It is quite common to see, say, a household claim housing benefit or tax credits while having the maximum £16000 of savings in the bank, while the household next door are not entitled because their income is a wee bit over the threshold and they might have no savings in the bank. Another example would be working people who have lost their jobs with no redundancy payout due to them being on short term contracts and the like. If they own their home, their mortgage and other benefits are not paid for the first six months while people who rent council properties are treated differently; all expenses paid from the get go. What a lot of people are getting upset about is that the UKE system is riven with unfairnesses and a lot of people who know exactly how to work the system. For example many think it's unfair that people who have done the 'right thing' by saving for retirement and not taking up subsidised rental accommodations are actually being penalised for it. In that when it comes to residential care the so called 'wealthy' have to sell their homes to pay for it while those who haven't made provision for themselves get everything for free. Nobody in their right mind would deny the truly needy but in this country there is a horrible tendency for a significant minority to work the system. There is an ingrained dependency on old Labour values; spend what you have, take no responsibility for you and yours, and lo! the state will provide. The state's getting pretty pissed off with it. That, and tax evaders.
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Post by ozneil on Jun 21, 2011 23:42:16 GMT -1
Yeah ours is rorted too. The problem these rorters bugger it up for all. The governments seem to lack the will to really crack down on the rorters. Both tax evaders & welfare cheats. Until that happens we (the poor honest tax payer) carry the burden. One great thing here, brought in by the Liberal government, is that Super income is tax free and excluded from all calculations. We are able to opt out of commercial superannuation schemes and operate our own Self Managed Superannuation Fund (SMSF) provided it meets strict criteria. Employers have to pay 9% of salary into employees super fund. One thing about an SMSF is there are no management fees and we are responsible for its own success (Spend most mornings on here instead of playing shocks & scares ) ) I do not say our system is any better or worse than the UK system,or any other, just different. We will end up dead eventually any way
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