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Post by ozneil on Apr 19, 2015 0:02:52 GMT -1
It was in response to my earlier post the one before may last one
this one
etc
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 0:24:07 GMT -1
UKIP are about as far to the RIGHT as you can get, Oz.
Inherently racist purists who want the UKE out of the EU because we can't have Johnny Foreigner telling US what to do, oh no.
Xenophobia on a stick. Just like the Nazi Party before them.
That immigrants to the UKE pay in more than they take out is a fact. However, Farage and his bunch of hideous henchfecks would rather not admit that and continue to wind people with IQs in single figures into a self-righteous Union Jack-waving frenzy.
There's only two scenarios come May 8th. A Lab/SNP/Plaid Cymru/Green alliance or.....a Tory/Ukip coalition.
I think this election is going to be a watershed for the UKE, one way or another.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 19, 2015 1:03:30 GMT -1
UKIP are about as far to the RIGHT as you can get, Oz. Inherently racist purists who want the UKE out of the EU because we can't have Johnny Foreigner telling US what to do, oh no. Xenophobia on a stick. Just like the Nazi Party before them. That immigrants to the UKE pay in more than they take out is a fact. However, Farage and his bunch of hideous henchfecks would rather not admit that and continue to wind people with IQs in single figures into a self-righteous Union Jack-waving frenzy. There's only two scenarios come May 8th. A Lab/SNP/Plaid Cymru/Green alliance or.....a Tory/Ukip coalition. I think this election is going to be a watershed for the UKE, one way or another. You are probably right. They certainly seem that way! Only one minor disagreement the Nazi Party were socialist (or rather totalitarian) the name sorta gives a clue, but that is not important to the gist of your post As my Chinese friends would say. It would appear that you are going to live in interesting times. BUTThat is still no excuse for the actions of some of the "extreme left"going in mob handed, intimidating , threatening violence and even death to UKIP people. They are (or should be) entitled to their opinion and free vote "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" That is democracy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 19:01:06 GMT -1
The Nazis were fascists, Oz.
Could you give examples of your despised Leftys threatening UKIP with death?
Frankly, in Scotland we'll tell them our views at the ballot box.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 20, 2015 20:11:11 GMT -1
The Nazis were fascists, Oz. Could you give examples of your despised Leftys threatening UKIP with death? Frankly, in Scotland we'll tell them our views at the ballot box. Actually they werent. That is a falsehood put out by socialists to try and distance themselves from them Once again just look at facts. 1 They believed in the government controlling everything for the good of the people They knew best! 2 They wanted absolute control of the country 3 They were totalitarian 4 they believed in the state owning everything Except for them and their mates 5 they provided free health care for the workers 6 they provided free education including university 7.They provided provided pensions 8 They provided free holidays including free cruises for the workers 9 They couldnt pay for it all 10 It didnt work Now tell me socialist ideals. Read the headline from the bit I posted above somewhere and also death threats made against the candidate for Norfolk ( I think if was Norfolk) I didnt pay much attention just thought it was mire Extreme left rhetoric. PS I dont despise lefties, except extremists, (either left or right) just their politics. Some of my more misguided friends are real lefties we have fantastic discussions trying to convince each other of the wrongs after a few beers but this is Oz Its different apart fron a few radicals (that better) who usually grow out of it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 20:58:59 GMT -1
The over-riding characteristic of the Nazis was racism and white Aryan supremacy, Oz.
They were ( and still are ) fascists. Aided and abetted in the UKE by the far right Mitford family, oh and the owners of the Daily Heil. So in that way little has changed.
Its not only mistaken but insulting to compare their views to any form of socialism. But I am beginning to see where you might be coming from, if your utter terror of the left emanates from a misguided view that Nazi-ism defines it.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 20, 2015 21:12:11 GMT -1
The over-riding characteristic of the Nazis was racism and white Aryan supremacy, Oz. They were ( and still are ) fascists. Aided and abetted in the UKE by the far right Mitford family, oh and the owners of the Daily Heil. So in that way little has changed. Its not only mistaken but insulting to compare their views to any form of socialism. But I am beginning to see where you might be coming from, if your utter terror of the left emanates from a misguided view that Nazi-ism defines it. Should have mentioned they also believe in fairy stories National Socialist German Workers' Party, or Nazi Party, To me Fascism is an extension of socialism gone wrong (er) ie racisms extreme nationalism and a few other nasty traits bit like Stalinism or Maoism all started off for the good of the people (socialism ) that went off the rails and used brutal mthods to enforce their will.. Gees Im not scared of the left, why should I be? they are generally incompetent, its the damage they do that is frightening ... Wilson Blair Brown and here Whitlam Rudd & Gillard. for examples Now lets have your socialist ideals to compare
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 21:29:07 GMT -1
Are you really, seriously, trying to continue on the tack that compares the SNP with Nazi-ism?
That's fucking shocking.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 20, 2015 21:35:00 GMT -1
Are you really, seriously, trying to continue on the tack that compares the SNP with Nazi-ism? That's fucking shocking. Ah so SNP is socialist. Im not comparing it with anything. I was merely pointing out the The Nazis started off as a Socialist party under Dexlar and went off the rails and asked you to compare their ideals with socialist ideals. We know there are differences but compare original ideals Never ever accept anything blindly think!! you have a brain. You will probably disagree with me but at least think about it. Learn from History.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 21:50:23 GMT -1
No , lets get to the nub of what you're attempting to imply.
LEARN FROM HISTORY???
Are you seriously of the opinion that the Scottish people, in 2015, could have the wool pulled over their eyes and vote for a party to represent us in Westmonster, that could CONCEIVABLY, in any way shape or form, mutate into the worst excesses of the Nazi Party?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 21, 2015 0:24:50 GMT -1
No Im not comparing SNP to Nazis that would be silly
merely saying that the Nazi party started as a Socialist Workers party and I stated their aims which are socialist aims
Are the SNP aims similar?
Its a question not a statement
Lets look
1 They believed in the government controlling everything for the good of the people They knew best! TICK
2 They wanted absolute control of the country Tick
3 They were totalitarian X
4 they believed in the state owning everything Except for them and their mates tick
5 they provided free health care for the workers Tick
6 they provided free education including university Tick
7.They provided provided pensions Tick
8 They provided free holidays including free cruises for the workers probably
9 They couldnt pay for it all Prob Not
10 It didnt work Never has
Anything I missed
Ihad been informed that SNP was not a Socialist party I take it that was incorrect.
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Post by bormes on Apr 22, 2015 16:37:05 GMT -1
I think of modern Socialists, like Wedgie Benn and Bliar etc, including Millypud!!
Now the thing is, they TALK a good fight, Benn even gave up his Lordship, HOWEVER NONE of them give up any money!!
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Post by ozneil on Apr 22, 2015 21:05:40 GMT -1
I think of modern Socialists, like Wedgie Benn and Bliar etc, including Millypud!! Now the thing is, they TALK a good fight, Benn even gave up his Lordship, HOWEVER NONE of them give up any money!! The think that got me afer lots of haranguing Benn got his Bill through parliament to enable peers to renounce their title. The very first one to do so was Alec Douglas-Home I found this terribly British
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 0:09:23 GMT -1
Alrighty, you did ask, Oz. -------------------------------------------------------- No Im not comparing SNP to Nazis that would be silly NICE TRY, PRETTY DAMNED INSULTING THOUGH merely saying that the Nazi party started as a Socialist Workers party and I stated their aims which are socialist aims Are the SNP aims similar? Its a question not a statement HAPPY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS, HERE GOES: 1 They believed in the government controlling everything for the good of the people They knew best! TICK SNP ARE NOT TOTALITARIAN AND ARE LED BY THE WISHES OF THE VOTING POPULATION. 2 They wanted absolute control of the country Tick SNP LIKE ALL OF US WOULD AGREE THAT ROBUST OPPOSITION IS HEALTHY FOR ANY GOVERNMENTAL SYSTEM 3 They were totalitarian X NOT SO IN SCOTLAND, THATS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE BELIEVE 4 they believed in the state owning everything Except for them and their mates tick WHILE THERE MAY BE AN ARGUMENT FOR STATE CONTROL OF CERTAIN ASSETS, (SUCH AS THE NHS, PUBLIC TRANSPORT FOR EXAMPLE) BUSINESS PRINCIPLES ARE SUPPORTED AS LONG AS THEY PLAY FAIR AND TREAT EMPLOYEES WITH RESPECT BY PAYING A FAIR WAGE FOR A FAIR DAY’S WORK. 5 they provided free health care for the workers Tick WHO COULD DISAGREE WITH THAT PRINCIPLE? OR DO WE THINK HEALTHCARE IS ONLY FOR THOSE WITH FAT WALLETS? 6 they provided free education including university Tick WHO COULD DISAGREE WITH THAT PRINCIPLE? OR DO WE THINK EDUCATION IS ONLY FOR THOSE WITH FAT WALLETS? 7.They provided provided pensions Tick IN SCOTLAND WE BELIEVE THAT THOSE WHO HAVE PAID INTO THE STATE IN NI CONTRIBUTIONS AND TAXES ARE PERFECTLY ENTITLED TO RECEIVE A CONTRIBUTION BACK WHEN THEY RETIRE. 8 They provided free holidays including free cruises for the workers probably YOU MADE THAT UP, DIDN'T YOU? 9 They couldnt pay for it all Prob Not THEY COULD HAVE-- HAD THEY TAXED MORE FAIRLY THOSE WHO INHERITED SIGNIFICANT WEALTH AND/OR EARN SUMS IN THE TOP FEW % COMPARED TO AVERAGE. AND MADE TAX EVASION/AVOIDANCE ILLEGAL. 10 It didnt work Never has SAYS WHO? THE MONEY MEN? QUALITY OF LIFE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. IT’s PERFECTLY POSSIBLE TO RUN AN ECONOMY THAT TAKES CARE OF PEOPLE IF THE WILL IS THERE. SPEND LESS ON LAYERS OF GOVERNMENT, LESS ON ARMAMENTS, LESS ON INFRASTRUCTURE IN ONE TINY PART OF THE UK---AND MORE ON THINGS WE ALL VALUE; EDUCATION, HEALTH, WELFARE FOR THOSE MOST VULNERABLE. Ihad been informed that SNP was not a Socialist party I take it that was incorrect. LEFT OF CENTRE AND PROUD TO BE SO. THERE"S NOTHING WORSE THAN A SMUG TORY, BUT THANK EFF THEY'RE ALMOST INSTINCT IN SCOTLAND.
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Post by ozneil on Apr 23, 2015 1:08:32 GMT -1
mmm Pretty damn good answer
1 SNP ARE NOT TOTALITARIAN AND ARE LED BY THE WISHES OF THE VOTING POPULATION. didnt say they were but they want control coz they know better
2 SNP LIKE ALL OF US WOULD AGREE THAT ROBUST OPPOSITION IS HEALTHY FOR ANY GOVERNMENTAL SYSTEM but still want control of country
3 They were totalitarian X NOT SO IN SCOTLAND, THATS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE BELIEVE I agree I said that the X is a give away
4 WHILE THERE MAY BE AN ARGUMENT FOR STATE CONTROL OF CERTAIN ASSETS, (SUCH AS THE NHS, PUBLIC TRANSPORT FOR EXAMPLE) BUSINESS PRINCIPLES ARE SUPPORTED AS LONG AS THEY PLAY FAIR AND TREAT EMPLOYEES WITH RESPECT BY PAYING A FAIR WAGE FOR A FAIR DAY’S WORK. so thats the same ultimate control of everything
5 6 & 7 def both parties
8 They provided free holidays including free cruises for the workers probably
YOU MADE THAT UP, DIDN'T YOU? No I didnt (ye of little faith) they built 2 huge cruise ships and various resorts biggest on Island of Rugen. Cruise ships Robert Ley and Wilhelm Gustloff. neither survived the war
9 THEY COULD HAVE-- HAD THEY TAXED MORE FAIRLY THOSE WHO INHERITED SIGNIFICANT WEALTH AND/OR EARN SUMS IN THE TOP FEW % COMPARED TO AVERAGE. AND MADE TAX EVASION/AVOIDANCE ILLEGAL. so same ideal steal money to pay
so it looks like 60-80% of the above are common to both.
THERE"S NOTHING WORSE THAN A SMUG TORY, BUT THANK EFF THEY'RE ALMOST INSTINCT IN SCOTLAND. gees Instinct indeed sound promising for Dave
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