Big Ructions in UKE politics

[Deleted]

Alrighty. Some serious stuff going on here again, and by that I mean UKE, not just Scotland politics.

It seems that Jeremy Corbyn might just get elected to the leadership of the Labour Party.
He's an old school socialist. And boy, are his "Red Tory" colleagues terrified that he's gaining significant ground with Labour voters.

It hardly comes as a surprise to us in Scotland that the mainstream media--and the Tory and Labour party machines--are demonising him, just as they did the YES movement.

They are truly out of control in their attacks, just as they were last year on IndyRef.
That'll be because they're running scared. The Scots've aye been onto them and now--FINALLY--our neighbours over the border are starting to wake up.

I hope he wins. His values are v similar to that of the SNP: invest in NHS, free tuition fees, anti-Trident and most of all, the fair redistribution of wealth.

Sounds good to me.

[bormes]

I agree with a lot he says and claims he wishes to do.
Even if he does become leader of labour, they will not get in, reminds the English far too much of Benn or Foot in my opinion.
I think he is a time bomb, he has anger issues AND he is far, far, far too cosy to the ira.
He REFUSES to condem their bombing of innocents, that alone for me makes him a cnut!!

[ozneil]

Rolo Rote

invest in NHS, free tuition fees, anti-Trident and most of all, the fair redistribution of wealth.

Same old platitudes gives you a nice warm fuzzy feeling! Sounds like Utopia

WHO PAYS?

Oh, of course, silly me, North Sea oil ..... if the price of oil rises and if the wicked multi national oil companies decide its once again an economical proposition; otherwise???

You vote for that guy you have to up taxes and lose people who want to get ahead. Your decision!

Who decides what is a fair distribution of wealth?

Tax the guy who has worked his arse off, taking risks and making a motza of money for himself and his kids and give it to some guy whose main preoccupation is welfare and has a penchant for backing 3 legged horses?

[bormes]

Oz, as you know we have a similar outlook on life I think?
However the differences with huge companies who run NON ESSENTIAL Companies and pay NO TAX AT ALL, yet make MILLIONS in profit from our country is unacceptable.
After all, we CAN run Hamburger Joints, Coffee Shops Charities and Clothes Shops.
We CAN build vehicles, we do NOT need to be just ASSEMBLY places so that these Jap vehicles can get into the EU!!!!
We DO need ideas, hard work and chance takers
We DO NOT NEED LEACHES.!!
We CAN learn from OZ!!

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2015 23:50:43 GMT -1 ozneil said:

Rolo Rote

invest in NHS, free tuition fees, anti-Trident and most of all, the fair redistribution of wealth.

Same old platitudes gives you a nice warm fuzzy feeling! Sounds like Utopia

WHO PAYS?

Oh, of course, silly me, North Sea oil ..... if the price of oil rises and if the wicked multi national oil companies decide its once again an economical proposition; otherwise???

You vote for that guy you have to up taxes and lose people who want to get ahead. Your decision!

Who decides what is a fair distribution of wealth?

Tax the guy who has worked his arse off, taking risks and making a motza of money for himself and his kids and give it to some guy whose main preoccupation is welfare and has a penchant for backing 3 legged horses?

Ah the usual cliched soundbite. That same old same old trotted out view that everyone left of centre believes we can deliver Utopia.
Nonsensical and completely untrue. And pretty insulting to everyone's intelligence, actually.

Who pays,you ask?

The cheating, lying global conglomerates that operate multi billion pound businesses out of the UKE while evading tax certainly don't. The entire UKE debt would be wiped out in a stroke if they paid their dues. Meanwhile the UKE taxpayer continues to meekly accept that our taxes SUBSIDISE working tax credit benefits because people who are working on minimum wage or zero hours contracts need a topup just to pay their basic bloody bills.
THAT IS CRAZY.

Don't believe all you read in the red tops about the so-called *decline* in North Sea oil revenue. BP just announced a major new investment worth billions while we've all known for some time that two new fields have been found to the west of Shetland. UKE govt don't want us to know about them of course, doesn't suit their anti-independence rhetoric.

We are SO not against entrepreneurship in Scotland, the very opposite has always been and still is true--- and you're on a hiding to precisely nothing if you keep ranting on about *successful* folks handing over their hard-earned to the *feckless* . In actual fact, OZ, unemployment benefit is a VERY TINY percentage of the UKE's welfare budget as a whole.

Investing in proper healthcare brings so many benefits, not least that people are healthier and more able to work and contribute back into the system. DOH! Imagine if we weren't spending BILLIONS each year on Trident and how we could reinvest that cash to bring much wider, tangible benefits?

AND ANOTHER THING! I believe the vast majority of Scots would willingly pay a penny or two in the pound more in taxes if that cash were ringfenced into the things we hold dear: namely the NHS and Education. We do not want those precious services only available to those with, as you'd say, a motza--whether earned or inherited.

And finally--in my personal view, I want to live in a society that invests in people's skills and abilities, takes care of the truly vulnerable and encourages folks to be the best they can be and contribute back what they can.

We've seen through the scourge of corporate and private greed so prevalent this last 30 years.
And that's why people are voting for left and centre-left parties such as SNP and increasingly, Jeremy Corbyn, for the Labour party leadership.

BRING IT ON, I say.

[ozneil]

I thought for a mad minute you agreed with me. I should have known better.

Those that abolished Junior and Senior Secondary schools have a lot to answer for regarding education.

OK I asked where does $$$ comes from.

I still do I read your wish list.

First how do you make the wicked nasty multi national companies pay? The first hint of increasing tax it would be a case of "NO WAY JOSIE" TTFN. There are plenty of countries that would be delighted to give them "good deals" on tax and cheap labour including some that are in UE. If they close in UK you lose significant employment ... doubt if any Pollie, SNP, Labour or Tory would take that risk (The greenies are daft enough). You have let your own large industies stagnate through union problems and bad management (Leyland, Colvilles, Ship building , too many too poke as tick at, mining the list goes on and on.

So realistically how do you make them pay? You cant so no $$$

Oil the next one the savior of the human race, well Scottish anyway. OIl prices have dropped by about 50% in the last year so the nasty wicked multinational oil companies are reducing production on the least productive sites which unfortunately are off shore ones Not only in North Sea. Sure they make glib announcements thats easy but are they opening any more fields. As far as Im aware there are a number of redundant oil platforms if some Scottish loch and some Norwegian Fiords. Just wait till Iranian oil starts flowing in line with the POTUS treaty.... even more oil.

So the money wont be coming from them.

Now this a question . Which are the Red Top newspapers? UK papers I read are the Telegraph and occasionally the Scotsman. Are they Red Tops?

Next I said welfare not unemployment though that is a large amount . AS far as I can see UK subjects get grants for just about everything from shagging to the grave. Incidentally do you have to get a goverment certificate to shag? You seem to need it for just about everything else.

Cut down Public payments and Public Servants that will save a motza but still not enough to fulfill your wish list

So once again where does money come from?

Rolo rote

And finally--in my personal view, I want to live in a society that invests in people's skills and abilities, takes care of the truly vulnerable and encourages folks to be the best they can be and contribute back what they can.

When ya coming over?

[Deleted]

Aug 14, 2015 2:42:35 GMT -1 ozneil said:

I thought for a mad minute you agreed with me. I should have known better.

Those that abolished Junior and Senior Secondary schools have a lot to answer for regarding education.

OK I asked where does $$$ comes from.

I still do I read your wish list.

First how do you make the wicked nasty multi national companies pay? The first hint of increasing tax it would be a case of "NO WAY JOSIE" TTFN. There are plenty of countries that would be delighted to give them "good deals" on tax and cheap labour including some that are in UE. If they close in UK you lose significant employment ... doubt if any Pollie, SNP, Labour or Tory would take that risk (The greenies are daft enough). You have let your own large industies stagnate through union problems and bad management (Leyland, Colvilles, Ship building , too many too poke as tick at, mining the list goes on and on.

So realistically how do you make them pay? You cant so no $$$

Oil the next one the savior of the human race, well Scottish anyway. OIl prices have dropped by about 50% in the last year so the nasty wicked multinational oil companies are reducing production on the least productive sites which unfortunately are off shore ones Not only in North Sea. Sure they make glib announcements thats easy but are they opening any more fields. As far as Im aware there are a number of redundant oil platforms if some Scottish loch and some Norwegian Fiords. Just wait till Iranian oil starts flowing in line with the POTUS treaty.... even more oil.

So the money wont be coming from them.

Now this a question . Which are the Red Top newspapers? UK papers I read are the Telegraph and occasionally the Scotsman. Are they Red Tops?

Next I said welfare not unemployment though that is a large amount . AS far as I can see UK subjects get grants for just about everything from shagging to the grave. Incidentally do you have to get a goverment certificate to shag? You seem to need it for just about everything else.

Cut down Public payments and Public Servants that will save a motza but still not enough to fulfill your wish list

So once again where does money come from?

Rolo rote

And finally--in my personal view, I want to live in a society that invests in people's skills and abilities, takes care of the truly vulnerable and encourages folks to be the best they can be and contribute back what they can.

When ya coming over?

No way Josie! now that IS funny

Loads to talk about here, mind if I break it up a bit?

First how do you make the wicked nasty multi national companies pay? The first hint of increasing tax it would be a case of "NO WAY JOSIE" TTFN. There are plenty of countries that would be delighted to give them "good deals" on tax and cheap labour including some that are in UE. If they close in UK you lose significant employment ... doubt if any Pollie, SNP, Labour or Tory would take that risk (The greenies are daft enough). You have let your own large industies stagnate through union problems and bad management (Leyland, Colvilles, Ship building , too many too poke as tick at, mining the list goes on and on.

So realistically how do you make them pay? You cant so no $$$

Not talking about *increasing* tax here, Oz. Talking about them paying the TAX that's due on their profits---instead of registering offshore and paying none at all. An increasingly prevalent tax dodge loophole that needs legislated against and sharpish.

UK has a highly skilled workforce which is why so many global companies base operations here.
Yes, perhaps outsourcing might mean competitively cheaper labour but only in the minimum wage type jobs, service industries and the like.

The loss of our heavy industries is less to do with trade unions and more to do with the Thatcher ethic of the 80s, closing down steel, railways, mining, shipbuilding etc on idealogical grounds-- and outsourcing to developing countries where companies were subsidised to become competitive by their own governments! Not to mention living costs cheaper in those countries meaning wages-again!-could be lowered.

To my mind, there's very little point in creating a swathe of badly paid jobs just for the sake of it. Because the low paid can't pay normal living costs on their wages so the TAXPAYER here subsidises the greed of the globals through topping up low wages via tax credits. It's a CRAZY FALSE ECONOMY!

[Deleted]

Oil the next one the savior of the human race, well Scottish anyway. OIl prices have dropped by about 50% in the last year so the nasty wicked multinational oil companies are reducing production on the least productive sites which unfortunately are off shore ones Not only in North Sea. Sure they make glib announcements thats easy but are they opening any more fields. As far as Im aware there are a number of redundant oil platforms if some Scottish loch and some Norwegian Fiords. Just wait till Iranian oil starts flowing in line with the POTUS treaty.... even more oil.

So the money wont be coming from them.

You're correct of course that the price of oil has fallen this past year. However, this kind of fluctuation is not unusual and doesn't necessarily mean that prices won't recover. Prices of ALL commodities rise and fall with supply and demand after all.

With Scottish independence and a fair settlement on oil revenue into the Scottish government coffers, the next (at least) 40 years worth of revenues will be used to invest in Scotland's infrastructure and to put money aside (like Norway does) into a sovereign fund.

Westminster governments have squandered our oil resources to shore up their balance of payments this past 40 years and we've precisely nothing to show for it. The south east receives the most investment per capita than any other part of the UK. Funny that.

If you'd read my post you'd know that two new fields have been discovered West of Shetland. You gotta ask why BP would make significant new investments otherwise! It's also been revealed the other day that the Tory government lied a few decades ago about oil being present in the Clyde estuary. I wonder why...

Tell me this, is Scotland's oil now seen some kind of awful burden? Can you name ANY oil producing country that's not better off for producing it?

[Deleted]

Now this a question . Which are the Red Top newspapers? UK papers I read are the Telegraph and occasionally the Scotsman. Are they Red Tops?



So once again where does money come from?

Red Tops in the UKE are The Mirror, The Sun, The Daily Record (in Scotland), The Daily Star.
Broadsheets are The Times, The Telegraph, FT, The Independent, The Guardian, The Herald and the Scotsman (in Scotland).

In between the two fall The Daily Fail and The Daily Express--but both tend increasingly towards Red Top values.

All of them are politically slanted according to ownership. The Telegraph and the Scotsman are generally recognised as being right of centre.

I was hugely fortunate 40 years ago to have as a lecturer Professor Greg Philo of Glasgow University, a media specialist. His advice to us was to read across a range of newspapers and analyse the difference in how stories were being reported. If anything press bias has gone into the stratosphere since then but I still read across the range, except for The Sun and The Star.
They're just comics for White Van Man.

Welfare next post!

[Deleted]

Next I said welfare not unemployment though that is a large amount . AS far as I can see UK subjects get grants for just about everything from shagging to the grave. Incidentally do you have to get a goverment certificate to shag? You seem to need it for just about everything else.

Cut down Public payments and Public Servants that will save a motza but still not enough to fulfill your wish list

Approximately 50% of the UKE's welfare bill is made up by state pensions, Oz. Many of us feel these should not be categorised as *benefits* because people pay in all their working lives via national insurance.

Unfortunately we don't get shagging grants, per se, or we'd all be at it
Seriously, though, if you mean welfare support for people who need state help to bring up their kids, well, let's look at that.

We have universal, non-means tested child benefit that we all pay into via National Insurance. It's about £20 a week until the kid's 16.
We also have additional benefits for low paid or unemployed parents.
There are some who have very large families they can't afford to support, I grant you. And tend to be better off than working people on low wages.

Are benefits too high or are wages too low? Answers on a postcard.

So-- a large part of the 50% non-pensions welfare bill supports and invests in children.
The rest supports people who care for family members (saving the government a bloody fortune!) plus disability and sickness benefits.

Other benefits include widow/widower benefits, short term, paid on the loss of the breadwinner. My mother was entitled to that-- briefly-- when my dad died at 57. There are also hardship grants; where people who've fallen on hard times can get a couple of hundred quid for essential household items.

And yes, re the grave. The very poorest who can't afford funeral costs can get a (very little) help to retain a measure of dignity in difficult circumstances.

So, OZ, which of these would you cut? Or would you, like SO MANY here, continue to campaign that the very richest pay in to the system (and the people) they exploit for their personal gain?

[ozneil]

Wow what wonderful replies.

Great!!!.


It will take time to think about them and digest them

[ozneil]

OK here we go prob not all in one hit


Firstly Multi nationals

My wording was slack (slaps himself on wrist)

This is exactly what I meant

Not talking about *increasing* tax here, Oz. Talking about them paying the TAX that's due on their profits---instead of registering offshore and paying none at all.

Problem is our governments UK & Oz gave them tax breaks to encourage them to open up and they have taken advantage of that and other regs to send profits overseas to likes of Singapore, Bermuda etc etc to avoid fair tax

If the Governments try to increase the tax payments they immediately threaten to move off shore, governments cave in, dead scared of unemployment rising. We are better placed than you to fight this as we and NZ are the 2 most stable countries in the region.

As a result Muli-nationals continue to escape tax. The only way to stop this is by international treaty and we wont get that.

So Ya dont get dah Quids

I disagree with the blame being attached to Thatcher.It was happening in the 60s when I was there and that was Wilson. So much so that it was known as the "English disease" here. It was in the 60s we saw the biggest mass immigration of Brits ever

Thatcher removed featherbedding from industries that were not economical and they closed. Why they had become uneconomical is a whole other ball game


Otherwise I pretty much agree with you but its still better having a badly paid job topped up by govt than no job at all. Her govt subsidises the company to provide employment so actual take home pay is not rat shit*.

I think thats first one!


* woops reads badly! the subsidy is for training the unemployed and lasts for up to one year per person.

[ozneil]

Next Oil

There is a glut of oil on market and the world price of crude is falling. As a result the big oil companies are closing down the less economical producing platforms though they are still exploring. It is extremely unlikely they will open more oil fields while they can buy oil cheaper than they can produce it. When Iranian oil starts flowing and Chinese start producing their own in South China Sea more oil will become available and it is unlikely that oil prices will reach their previous highs in short to medium term.

Then BP will probably talk about definite dates for opening the Shetland oil fields not just warm fuzzy announcements.

Put in a nutshell if its cheaper to get elsewhere they will get it elsewhere


So no golden goose there.

[ozneil]

Red tops TA

Apart from Telegraph & Scotsman I get most of the "opinion? from the Drudge reoport working on the theory "dont believe all you read in the papers"

[ozneil]

lastly I think

Its only a perception but it appears to me as foreigner that the UK citizen has given up far to much responsibility to the "Authorities" for living. It appears, to me at least, the people rely far too much on them, the authorities, to make decisions which rather stifles self responsibility and initiative.

To me it seems you cannot do anything without government, all levels, approval. You are one of the most over governed countries I know of.

The last personal contact I had with UK Authorities was about 20 years ago and I found the people I was speaking to helpful, pleasant but inflexible.

Country as one of my UK friends says is now "tick a box" to do anything, miss a box and you have to go back to the beginning without passing GO and not collecting your $200