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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 21:34:09 GMT -1
Horrified and disgusted by what's going on over there, again. Children as targets. Kids killed or maimed for life because of some stupid history of who owns what land.
As ever, men are the aggressors, and prepared to do anything for their cause, apparently. All over a strip of land FFS.
Well you know what? We need to send a message to these amoebae. Violence solves nothing, never has, never will--- and just exacerbates an ever-increasing downward spiral.
Get these savages to feck. We're better than this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 22:25:57 GMT -1
It's got to stop, guys.
We can't just accept it as the 'way of things'.
Israel's totally out of order, not for the first time. I doubt their government speaks for the majority of their people.
The general perception is that the US and the UKE support Israel. Well you know what? NOT IN MY NAME. I am thoroughly SICK that Scots are aligned somehow with the skewed values of both the Westminster and the US governments.
Let those eternally-stupid men get on with their silly warmongering and posturing. I know we Scots are BETTER THAN THAT.
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Post by celyn on Jul 17, 2014 0:05:06 GMT -1
It's got to stop, guys. We can't just accept it as the 'way of things'. Israel's totally out of order, not for the first time. I doubt their government speaks for the majority of their people. I hope it doesn't, but imagine the amount of government propaganda the plain people of Israel* are probably being subjected to. And it IS out of order, but the government of Israel knows it has the USA in its corner. Let those eternally-stupid men get on with their silly warmongering and posturing. I know we Scots are BETTER THAN THAT. I agree, of course, that we have to disentangle ourselves ffrom the U.K. I'd have to suggest, though, that it's not ALL to be blamed on men. Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi, Margaret Thatcher: none noticeably peace-loving. As for getting out of the U.K., it's all very scary. I swing from "yes, we will win this, YEAH!" TO "Oh shit, there will be a (narrow) no vote and then the gods alone know what nastiness will rain down on us from Westminster". A sort of political bipolar thingy, I suppose, and I bet I'm not alone in suffering from it. * Yes, I await a plagiarism/copyright legal action from the estate of Brian O'Nolan.
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Post by bormes on Jul 17, 2014 7:08:54 GMT -1
I saw a Map recently of when the first Palestine separation started. There was a wee bit about a hundredth the size of the whole area, by 1949 this tiny area had been taken over by the Zionists to about a third of the area in only three years!! The Allies who had started this stood by and said nothing. By today it has changed to be impossible to understand as the area left to the Arabs is about the same as the Zionists had in 1946. That unfairness and corruption has caused the horrific violence done by Hamas and others over there. I do not agree with violence normally, however there comes a point when there is NO CHOICE and that is NOT just a man thing. My problem with Hamas is the targeting of school buses and ANY Israeli, just as I am disgusted by children being killed and maimed by Israeli. I would point out though that in my experience the Israeli forces who like ALL forces DO make mistakes, they DO NOT, unlike Hamas and suicide bombers, target the innocents. The attack on innocents and children has been done mainly by islamic fighters, Arabs and Chechnyans who know they have worldwide publicity when they do this. Both sides need to stop and the civilised world need to pressure the Zionists to sort out a joint or some sort of suitable life together, the Hasidic jews for example are outraged that the current Israeli Government have taken over all this ground, they see the Arabs as their brothers and want to share all the ground with them, they are against the continuous building on Arab territory.
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Post by notanimby on Jul 17, 2014 8:41:53 GMT -1
I saw a Map recently of when the first Palestine separation started. There was a wee bit about a hundredth the size of the whole area, by 1949 this tiny area had been taken over by the Zionists to about a third of the area in only three years!! The Allies who had started this stood by and said nothing. By today it has changed to be impossible to understand as the area left to the Arabs is about the same as the Zionists had in 1946. That unfairness and corruption has caused the horrific violence done by Hamas and others over there. I do not agree with violence normally, however there comes a point when there is NO CHOICE and that is NOT just a man thing. My problem with Hamas is the targeting of school buses and ANY Israeli, just as I am disgusted by children being killed and maimed by Israeli. I would point out though that in my experience the Israeli forces who like ALL forces DO make mistakes, they DO NOT, unlike Hamas and suicide bombers, target the innocents. The attack on innocents and children has been done mainly by islamic fighters, Arabs and Chechnyans who know they have worldwide publicity when they do this. Both sides need to stop and the civilised world need to pressure the Zionists to sort out a joint or some sort of suitable life together, the Hasidic jews for example are outraged that the current Israeli Government have taken over all this ground, they see the Arabs as their brothers and want to share all the ground with them, they are against the continuous building on Arab territory. The zionist hoodlums/murderers are in breach of quite a few UN resolutions - no sign of the yanks and the brits invading them for it, or their illegally held WMDs. No wonder the arab people despise the west
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Post by bormes on Jul 17, 2014 10:21:55 GMT -1
Personally I rather despise them, the violent ones that is, including the Zionists. It is NOT of course most of the ordinary people in Israel who are doing this but their Government and that Government, like Westminster has control of the media and does the propaganda and even with that, although we hear very little about it, thousands of ordinary Israelis despise and vote against the way their Government are dealing with this. Like Nota I think the taking over of the whole territory is abominable and the West SHOULD be helping a proper sorting out of this mess CAUSED mainly by the WEST. IT STILL DOES NOT ALLOW HAMAS TO FIRE INDISCRIMINATE ROCKETS.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 17:56:14 GMT -1
I agree, of course, that we have to disentangle ourselves ffrom the U.K. I'd have to suggest, though, that it's not ALL to be blamed on men. Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi, Margaret Thatcher: none noticeably peace-loving.As for getting out of the U.K., it's all very scary. I swing from "yes, we will win this, YEAH!" TO "Oh shit, there will be a (narrow) no vote and then the gods alone know what nastiness will rain down on us from Westminster". A sort of political bipolar thingy, I suppose, and I bet I'm not alone in suffering from it. * Yes, I await a plagiarism/copyright legal action from the estate of Brian O'Nolan. Yeah, you're right of course Celyn, about those three harridans....exceptions to the rule Re your political bipolarity, you most definitely are NOT alone The polls do *appear* to show YES flatlining at the moment in the high 40%s but all I can say is my own experience in offices, homes, with friends and family that the polls do not reflect what I hear daily: what about you guys? As we know it's the undecideds that hold the key. People who know things about such things opine that undecideds are a tad more likely to vote yes than no and hunger for more information from each side. I think there is a general dread that a no vote will see, shall we say...punishment from Westminster. But that said, I am voting YES for positive, ambitious and hopeful reasons and not out of fear of recriminations. ps enlighten me about Brian O Nolan (and pardon my ignorance while you're at it!)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 18:14:43 GMT -1
Personally I rather despise them, the violent ones that is, including the Zionists. It is NOT of course most of the ordinary people in Israel who are doing this but their Government and that Government, like Westminster has control of the media and does the propaganda and even with that, although we hear very little about it, thousands of ordinary Israelis despise and vote against the way their Government are dealing with this. Like Nota I think the taking over of the whole territory is abominable and the West SHOULD be helping a proper sorting out of this mess CAUSED mainly by the WEST. IT STILL DOES NOT ALLOW HAMAS TO FIRE INDISCRIMINATE ROCKETS. No it doesn't, you're right But you do get the impression that the two sides are polar opposites in terms of military force and that successive Israeli governments seem to quite *enjoy* hammering the Palestinians in a show of brute force. As I write, Channel 4s news reporter Jonathan Miller just tweeted this: Jonathan Miller @millerc4 1h
#c4news a fearsome onslaught of Israeli missiles on #Gaza City tonight; pretty much non-stop, the booms punctuating the mosque-calls.How the hell would you begin to sort out this long running historical battle over a tiny strip of land? Not by military intervention by the West, that's for sure, well not in my book anyway... I often wonder about the effectiveness of economic sanctions, as it does seem to me that ordinary consumers have the power to hit a country hard in the pocket and ram the message home that their policies are unacceptable. Yes, I boycott buying goods from regimes I disagree with politically, in particular Chinese toys and I also don't buy certain brands I know use sweatshop child labour. But of course there's the point that sanctions actually harm the working people of those countries, those who, like us, see bad things done in their name. Perhaps, and I wonder if this is a REALLY silly idea, that we INSIST on controls on weapons being sold? So often it appears such hideous hardware is invented and manufactured in the West and then used against us--and everyone else, come to that, in conflict zones and by mad mental terrorist amoebae.
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Gaza Strip
Jul 17, 2014 18:36:22 GMT -1
via mobile
Post by celyn on Jul 17, 2014 18:36:22 GMT -1
Re. Brian O'Nolan - he is, well, WAS better known as Flann O'Brien. You have probably read "The Third Policeman" or "At Swim-Two-Birds" or The Poor Mouth" or others of his books.
But he also wrote a column in Forget-name Irish newspaper and it was wonderfully crazy. When he wanted to fulminate against this or that thing the government did, he would (in a sort of off-the-wall way), bring to his defence a 'man in the street' character, or composite character, The Plain People of Ireland.
So I borrowed the phrase but applied it to the plain people of Israel. Man on the Jerusalem omnibus, sort of thing.
And anyone who has not read Flann O'Brien must, really must, do so. Not right right now, but at some time when in need of a laugh.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 18:39:17 GMT -1
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Gaza Strip
Jul 17, 2014 18:47:11 GMT -1
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Post by celyn on Jul 17, 2014 18:47:11 GMT -1
Accidental duplicate pos deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 18:50:00 GMT -1
Re. Brian O'Nolan - he is, well, WAS better known as Flann O'Brien. You have probably read "The Third Policeman" or "At Swim-Two-Birds" or The Poor Mouth" or others of his books. But he also wrote a column in Forget-name Irish newspaper and it was wonderfully crazy. When he wanted to fulminate against this or that thing the government did, he would (in a sort of off-the-wall way), bring to his defence a 'man in the street' character, or composite character, The Plain People of Ireland. So I borrowed the phrase but applied it to the plain people of Israel. Man on the Jerusalem omnibus, sort of thing. And anyone who has not read Flann O'Brien must, really must, do so. Not right right now, but at some time when in need of a laugh. Celyn. Flann O'Brien. I probably knew, sometime back in the 80s when his novels hit a peak in popularity, that that was a nom de plume of Brian O Nolan but of course given the intervening years, with me, I have to let one fact go to let another one in... I do wonder if his newspaper columns might have been digitised and available somewhere. I'm minded to go and look. I'm also minded of another writer whose work I enjoyed back then. One John Kennedy Toole. His novel, A Confederacy of Dunces, was published posthumously and is easily one of the most entertaining books I ever read.
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Post by notanimby on Jul 17, 2014 18:51:11 GMT -1
Re. Brian O'Nolan - he is, well, WAS better known as Flann O'Brien. You have probably read "The Third Policeman" or "At Swim-Two-Birds" or The Poor Mouth" or others of his books.
But he also wrote a column in Forget-name Irish newspaper and it was wonderfully crazy. When he wanted to fulminate against this or that thing the government did, he would (in a sort of off-the-wall way), bring to his defence a 'man in the street' character, or composite character, The Plain People of Ireland. So I borrowed the phrase but applied it to the plain people of Israel. Man on the Jerusalem omnibus, sort of thing. And anyone who has not read Flann O'Brien must, really must, do so. Not right right now, but at some time when in need of a laugh. Naw ah huvnae, first I've heard of him, is he a sort of oirish Richard Littlejohn?
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Post by notanimby on Jul 17, 2014 18:53:54 GMT -1
John Lewis has stopped selling Sodastream stuff, thanks to anti-Zionist pressure, its also been reported that sales of the stuff is down in general too, thanks to the continued highlighting of this stuff, which is made in the illegally occupied territories
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Post by ozneil on Jul 17, 2014 20:50:52 GMT -1
fanatics on both sides...... Pots calling kettles black
We know where the Israelis get arms from mostly America. Where does Hamas get its weapons? They have 1000s of rockets. They cost money! Who is financing them?
According to sources here Hamas is firing rockets from residential sites, near schools and hospitals knowing Israel will respond sp making martyrs of the poor people. I dont know whether this is just propaganda or not but its a horrible cynical thought.
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