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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 22:31:11 GMT -1
The thing that worries me about giving 16 /17 year olds the vote is they have no experience of life in a cruel hard world and are inclined to vote with their heart and not their head Well yeah, that could be true, and it could also be untrue, depends on the individual, doesn't it? Anything that engages (sorry w*nk word there) young people in politics can't be a bad thing in my book though. Apathy gets nobody nowhere...and lifelong resignation to feeling powerless has to be a sh*t thing. It does seem a dichotomy to me that 16 and 17 year olds in Scotland can legally marry, are considered responsible for their actions in a court of law and can legally serve in the forces, yet don't have the franchise. What's the voting age in Oz, Oz?
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Post by celyn on May 29, 2012 23:13:18 GMT -1
I hadn't a scooby that any other party had made a point of the 16/17 year olds voting rights. When did that happen? ... Labour Manifesto 2010 page 0:5 LibDems have been sort of keen on the idea for bit longer, although possibly because they were never likely to be in a position to do much about it, but I'm too lazy to google up proof. I imagine the Tories are against the idea, but again, too lazy to go looking. I'm fairly sure it has been SNP policy for quite a long time, not something just pulled out of a hat on the spur of the moment. Don't feel bad about the lack of scooby: I knew it about the LibDems but the Labour thing I only learned 'cos I looked it up a month or two ago. And I thought "hmmm, that's interesting - perhaps I should make a note of it for future reference" ;D Potted history of some dates www.votesat16.org/about/campaign-history/
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Post by celyn on May 29, 2012 23:25:04 GMT -1
The thing that worries me about giving 16 /17 year olds the vote is they have no experience of life in a cruel hard world and are inclined to vote with their heart and not their head Well some are probably brainless idiots and some are probably more sensible than many an older person. But if they're allowed to work and pay taxes and marry and breed children (although I wish they wouldn't), then they might as well have a vote. The "experience of life in a cruel hard world" criterion, well, on reflection I might quite like that one. Of course it would involve removing the right to vote from a LOT of politicians. Off you go, Cameron, Osborn, Clegg, Milliband etc. ;D
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Post by ozneil on May 29, 2012 23:25:59 GMT -1
What's the voting age in Oz, Oz? 18 and voting is compulsory Your turn out for voting is about 50% isnt it? so only interested people vote. My comment then can really only apply here about youngsters getting the vote. We get all sorts the interested and uninterested the ignorant and the idealist and the rusted on voter who doesnt think. I dont think a 16 or 17 year old should be forced to vote. Most young kids have socialist ideals which is what the labour party is banking on, if the voting age is lowered, to get power. As they grow older with more experience of life their ideas mature and there horizons widen. Many move away from their earlier socialist ideas.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2012 0:17:45 GMT -1
Cheers, Celyn ;D It'd seem there's broad cross party (apart from the T*ries) support for giving the franchise to young adults, which is a good thing, IMV. I'm not sure Oz is correct in his view that as people age they lose their broadly socialist values. Perhaps yes in countries where a choice of parties is very limited to errr.... two? I think we're seeing something very different to the old two-party race here in Scotland though. I'm feeling tres convinced that the majority of Scots can and do espouse the best bits of both, while rejecting the worst of both. Ambitious and entrepreneurial but yet with a deep sense of social conscience. A desire for a fairer society, perhaps. I don't think voting should be compulsory. That's undemocratic! And I can just hear Heidie right now... But I do think if you don't exercise your vote you don't really have a leg to stand on, whingeing-wise.
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Post by ozneil on May 30, 2012 0:46:22 GMT -1
I took the lazy way out here. To put it fully.
Voting is not compulsory here... Attending a Polling Station on an election day is.
You go, get papers and if you dont want to vote you put in a blank paper or make it into a paper aeroplane if you want
We have 2 main parties Labour and Libs/National and a host of smaller and single issue parties. The Preferential voting system allows them to be heard.
However thats miles away from UK system
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Post by notanimby on May 30, 2012 17:39:02 GMT -1
I hadn't a scooby that any other party had made a point of the 16/17 year olds voting rights. When did that happen? As for voting agin the SNP out of habit, well yeah. We know that certain parties scuppered the first attempt to up-price (I made that up btw) alcohol nonsense. Not because of considerations of what might be a good idea, but because it was an SNP policy. I'm glad they've given it a second shot (pardon the pun) and it's now to become law. Have to say I'm not entirely convinced that raising the price will make a HUGE difference because I believe it's more a cultural thing than a price thing---------but maybe the start of changing mindsets, I dunno. It does seem to me though that cross-party pollies might just be starting to get it with regard to us deciding what's in our best interests generally. Then again, maybe just they're just caving in to an inevitability in a hope of winning votes. GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. www.votesat16.org.uk/
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2012 18:15:24 GMT -1
I took the lazy way out here. To put it fully. Voting is not compulsory here... Attending a Polling Station on an election day is. You go, get papers and if you dont want to vote you put in a blank paper or make it into a paper aeroplane if you want We have 2 main parties Labour and Libs/National and a host of smaller and single issue parties. The Preferential voting system allows them to be heard. However thats miles away from UK system In UKE national government elections (Westminster) we have FPTP (first past the post) while in council elections in Scotland we have STV (single transferable vote) which similarly to Aus, allows the smaller parties to be represented. Don't you have Tories over by then? What are the Nationals all about? I can take a flying guess at the Libs... What happens to a person if they don't turn up at the Polling Station to vote or make paper planes?
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Post by ozneil on May 30, 2012 20:15:20 GMT -1
In UKE national government elections (Westminster) we have FPTP (first past the post) while in council elections in Scotland we have STV (single transferable vote) which similarly to Aus, allows the smaller parties to be represented. Don't you have Tories over by then? What are the Nationals all about? I can take a flying guess at the Libs... What happens to a person if they don't turn up at the Polling Station to vote or make paper planes? No we dont have Tories or even a Labour like yours. THe libs represent Urban seats and the Nationals country seats , very little difference between parties. A guide was showing US students thru the House of Reps and explaining the system He said on this side we have Labour party equivalent to your Democrats and on this side we have lib/Nats parties equivalent to your Democrats. Labour in centre left and Libs/Nats are centre right. The Greens are loonies Ir you dont turn up without a valid excuse you get a hefty fine*, If you make a paper aeroplane and fly it and leave it lying you may get hit with a fine for littering *All of $20.00
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2012 0:57:53 GMT -1
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Post by ozneil on Jun 1, 2012 1:39:26 GMT -1
They would. Young people generally think left wing and any government employee union is generally left wing. I assume EIS is left wing like most unions.
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Post by minime on Jun 1, 2012 6:48:01 GMT -1
They would. Young people generally think left wing and any government employee union is generally left wing. I assume EIS is left wing like most unions. Well that's a positive, isn't it?
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Post by notanimby on Jun 1, 2012 16:53:12 GMT -1
Currently people aged 18-25 are the ones least likely to vote
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2013 21:08:53 GMT -1
Tonight I was at the launch of YesScotland in Glasgow. It was standing room only, hundreds and hundreds of people from all walks of life and all ages pitched up on a freezing cold night to hear the inspirational words of Denis Canavan, Blair Jenkins, Martha Wardrop, Nicola Sturgeon---and most of all for me, Cat Boyd- who as a 20+ described with amazing erudition all that is hurting our young people in Scotland. You say, Oz, that teenagers have 'no experience' of the world; well I disagree 100%. The sheer numbers of young people in the hall tonight was staggering..........they were there because they want change, and to help self-determine what's best for the Scottish people-- BY the Scottish people. The Yes Campaign's a very broad church indeed. It's not about party politics; it's not about right v left, it's about right v wrong. It's about shaping a country where we always get the government the people of Scotland voted for. btw Westie, you're correct re the issue of the Yes website, it was discussed again at a meeting earlier tonight. Improvements are well in hand...
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Post by bormes on Jan 17, 2013 10:10:56 GMT -1
I love that wee quote of yours Rolo and agree with it, "it is right V wrong"
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